(Topic ID: 353593)

Pinlights - Interactive Playfield Lighting for $179 - Free US shipping

By pinlights

40 days ago


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    22
    #1 40 days ago

    Good morning all!

    Compy and Max here from 86Pixels. We started the company back in 2013 primarily writing operating system software and game code for companies like Multimorphic, Valley Dynamo, Spooky, American Pinball, Dutch Pinball, Haggis and tons more.

    We started making mods in 2020 with the introduction of our Pinvision Interactive Backboard display. Quickly Twilight Zone sales went through the roof and we couldn’t build them fast enough. We continued making mods for games we love, following up with the Pinvision backboard for TRON, and the Magic Mirror for Theatre of Magic, all in all contributing thousands of dollars to our friends at Pinside through shop sales commissions.

    Fast forward to current day and we’re looking to expand our offerings on the interactive mod market. So, today we’re here to introduce Pinlights.

    Pinlights are gorgeous, diffused after-market playfield lights. They integrate right with your game’s GI and Flashers.

    Adheres to the cabinet one of two ways:
    - Our somewhat special, yet super strong magnet mount strips measuring at just 1/32” thick (included in all sets)
    - Low profile metal mounts, which are GREAT for art blades so you never have to worry about pulling them down. At just 0.018” thick, they’re practically invisible. Available for an extra $29.

    While the cool white, warm white and UV/purple flasher light rails might *seem* simple, the Pinlights app offers you a ton of adjustments and “pinball specific” features.

    Pinside_forum_7998476_2 (resized).pngPinside_forum_7998476_2 (resized).png

    A. Power, well, this is self explanatory
    B. "Duck GI During Flashers" - For an added flasher effect, you can turn the GI of the light bar off when a flasher hit occurs
    C. Tournament Mode - Disable all effects and just leave the system "ON" as to not be distracting
    D. GI Cool White/Warm White mix - Mix in GI color temperature. Some games look better with a warmer white option, newer sterns often look better with cooler white, or mix both for a daytime white color.
    E. GI Flasher Mix - Some games look better with a bit of the purple flasher circuit mixed in, so you can dial that in here.
    F. GI Minimum Brightness - On some games the GI flickers... a LOT, and with lights like these, it can create a nearly blinding strobing effect. Set this setting so you can still see the ball during these features.
    G. Turn off GI after (seconds) - If you're using the minimum brightness setting, turn off your GI "eventually" so your game doesn't stay on the minimum brightness when you actually power off your game.

    The app can also do firmware updates so as we add features or fix bugs, you can take advantage. There's also no forced cloud BS with this app. If you don't want to sync your junk to the cloud, you don't need to register or anything and you can just keep it on your phone.

    1. No forced marketing. We won't game the system by attaching our product listings to every game imaginable (unless said product is designed for one game specifically, looking at you expression lighting...)
    2. Honest marketing - No manipulated images. In fact, all of our promos will have a light meter at the center of the playfield (see below) so you can see the numbers behind the difference.

    Product brief (with demos on games!):

    Pricing: $179
    If you’re in the US, we’re running a special launch offer. All sets of Pinlights ordered and shipped to the US will have FREE shipping.

    Pinside shop: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1586-pinlights
    Website: https://pinlights.net

    We know these aren’t for everybody, and that’s definitely ok! However for those who want an integrated “bang for your buck” way of throwing some extra light on the playfield, we’ve got you covered!

    PXL_20231116_015653664(1) (resized).jpgPXL_20231116_015653664(1) (resized).jpgPXL_20231119_060511817 (resized).jpgPXL_20231119_060511817 (resized).jpgPXL_20231122_065323557(1) (resized).jpgPXL_20231122_065323557(1) (resized).jpgPXL_20240308_022405732 (resized).jpgPXL_20240308_022405732 (resized).jpgPXL_20240308_022524420 (resized).jpgPXL_20240308_022524420 (resized).jpgPXL_20240315_012258590 (resized).jpgPXL_20240315_012258590 (resized).jpgPinside_forum_7998476_1 (resized).pngPinside_forum_7998476_1 (resized).png
    #2 40 days ago

    This should be fun...

    popcorn.gifpopcorn.gif
    #3 40 days ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    This should be fun...
    [quoted image]

    Couldn't agree more

    -7
    #4 40 days ago
    Quoted from pinlights:

    Couldn't agree more

    Okay, if you'll play along why should we buy pinlights instead of pinstadium products? Is it just a price thing, or do you think your product is better? Furthermore, how do you think pinstadium will react to a product that... at a minimum... looks to be "inspired" by their flagship product?

    24
    #5 40 days ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    Okay, if you'll play along why should we buy pinlights instead of pinstadium products? Is it just a price thing, or do you think your product is better? Furthermore, how do you think pinstadium will react to a product that... at a minimum... looks to be "inspired" by their flagship product?

    Sure thing!

    1. Price is certainly a factor, and you can buy any products you want. Ours offers a bit more functionality out of the box, like with tournament mode, you can quickly disable flasher or GI syncing integration so you just get a well-lit playing environment without any distraction.
    2. We've made it easier to disconnect the light bars. One quick disconnect at the back of each light bar, you can remove them quickly from the game for any work or service needed.
    3. All diffused lighting, so no spots on the playfield, and a nice even lighting experience.
    4. For games that flicker GI a lot, these types of products can be blinding, so we also designed in a "minimum brightness" setting so that you can control how far the lights "dip" during certain points in the game.
    5. The competition can react however they want. This is the start of a platform just like we did with Pinvision. We've rolled out features that we think are useful (we use them ourselves), and we're going to expand functionality. We're working with some top-tier pinball artists to come out with a series of art blades to sell alongside an expression lighting-style product that we've got coming out later this year.

    We've paid legal counsel to do patent research prior to launch and have, so far, verified that we're not infringing on anyone's IP (and no such patents exist). We're just trying to go about this the absolute "rightest" way possible.

    #6 40 days ago

    I've not heard of Pinvision, then I saw this thread pop-up, and it seems completely unrelated to the product you mentioned? Guess they didn't employ the same legal counsel.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinvision-immersive-speaker-panel-upgrade-for-stern-spike-2

    Anyway, I may be interested in some of these for my Alien. I was going to just DIY, but if I go that route, it's not interactive at all.

    #7 40 days ago
    Quoted from cookpins:

    I've not heard of Pinvision, then I saw this thread pop-up, and it seems completely unrelated to the product you mentioned? Guess they didn't employ the same legal counsel.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinvision-immersive-speaker-panel-upgrade-for-stern-spike-2
    Anyway, I may be interested in some of these for my Alien. I was going to just DIY, but if I go that route, it's not interactive at all.

    To Pinsound's credit, they reached out to me just before TPF (I was driving up to Dallas) and let me know about the name clash. They'd asked me several times if I had a problem with what they were doing (both via email and in person). I don't own a trademark on it, so they're free to use it as much as they want.

    They have a fantastic product, and I definitely look forward to grabbing one!

    That's actually why Pinlights is being billed as a separate product. When people were buying our interactive displays, they were associating it with "86Pixels" and the product placement/branding was a bit fuzzy. So now we've got dedicated domains and product branding for our products.

    Regarding your DIY ambitions, feel free! There can definitely be some cost savings if you're willing to do multiple sets. Certain folks have utilized FETs on the GI circuitry to get things syncing, and if you wire each of your strips separately, you can technically do the same for "flasher" integration.

    Problems you might face:
    - Adhesion issues - The standard magnetic tape that everyone sells is either too thick and/or doesn't have the right adhesive on it. Same with those LED spools you buy, the adhesive sucks and will curl. If you're DIYing, replace that adhesive both on the back of the magnet mount AND on the LED strip.
    - Side glare - If you stuff them on a right angle bracket, the side-throw will blind players on adjacent games. Order an additional right angle piece and cut it down, glue it to the top to eliminate the bleed onto adjacent games. That's what the competition does. We solve that problem with custom extrusions.
    - Electrical isolation - Be careful if you're trying to make things interactive. You don't want to short something out. Our boards keep everything optically isolated. Also, NEVER run these off of the game's 12V supply. Use your own and plug into the service outlet.
    - Diffusion - Diffusion on standard SMD5050 LED strips (like WS2812) requires a diffuser channel (either a heavy/bulky aluminum piece, or a glue-on diffuser plastic). We use custom COB strips, so each light bar is about 1000 LEDs (500 for the flasher, 500 for the warm white/cool white rails), so diffusion is already taken care of.

    #8 40 days ago

    Nice of them to do that, weird to not just come up with a different name. Anyway, don't mean to detract from your product announcement.

    Great tips on the DIY. I've built them before and did use new adhesion and am powering them off the service outlet. You are correct about the side glare, I did not think to do something to prevent that.

    Your product looks much better quality than any DIY I would do, and with a higher end NIB pin like my Alien I'd prefer something more polished. Will you be offering any game specific capabilities in the app? For instance, in Alien, it would be cool to change the LED color to match the orange flashers as they are going off and give the effect from the movie. The lighting would need to change back to what it was set at prior when the flash effect was not occurring.

    #9 40 days ago
    Quoted from cookpins:

    Nice of them to do that, weird to not just come up with a different name. Anyway, don't mean to detract from your product announcement.
    Great tips on the DIY. I've built them before and did use new adhesion and am powering them off the service outlet. You are correct about the side glare, I did not think to do something to prevent that.
    Your product looks much better quality than any DIY I would do, and with a higher end NIB pin like my Alien I'd prefer something more polished. Will you be offering any game specific capabilities in the app? For instance, in Alien, it would be cool to change the LED color to match the orange flashers as they are going off and give the effect from the movie. The lighting would need to change back to what it was set at prior when the flash effect was not occurring.

    Great question! Pinlights Classics don't do that, however a new "Pinlights Pro" model is due out later this year that can do the effects you're wanting, including "layering". So if you want, feel free to either hold off or experiment with the DIY solution in the interim so you can compare/contrast!

    No need to be wary of talking shop! Always happy to!

    -- Jimmy

    20
    #10 40 days ago

    Well no bullshit fraudulent before & after pics is a good start at least.
    Trusted community members always a plus.

    #11 40 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Well no bullshit fraudulent before & after pics is a good start at least.
    Trusted community members always a plus.

    You raise good points! If you want a better look at the people "behind the mods", check out this awkward off-camera segment I did (that kinda gives me the 90s Williams promo video vibes, but without the awesome Demolition Man dirty-puns).

    #12 40 days ago

    I saw Jimmy on the IBTL podcast with Stumblor & Rob talking about these and thought it looked like a great product. I almost broke the website trying to be the first to order yesterday & I am stoked to see what these can do! As far as competition in the space goes, I think it raises the bar for everyone & in the end everyone wins.

    #13 40 days ago
    Quoted from kyinwa:

    I saw Jimmy on the IBTL podcast with Stumblor & Rob talking about these and thought it looked like a great product. I almost broke the website trying to be the first to order yesterday & I am stoked to see what these can do! As far as competition in the space goes, I think it raises the bar for everyone & in the end everyone wins.

    I can attest to you breaking the website - We caught a lot of errors that way! We definitely agree, and the show with Stumblor and Rob from The Electric Playground was so much fun! Even met some new friends at TPF as a result.

    We definitely appreciate all of the orders, me and Alana are testing lights as we speak!

    -- Jimmy

    #14 40 days ago

    What's the price for the Pinlights Pro looking like?

    #15 40 days ago

    These look great and I really like the idea of the alternate metal mounting system.

    So is the Customizable Color Palette that is noted as "Coming Soon" on your website going to be for the Classics or just for the yet to be released Pro model?

    #16 40 days ago
    Quoted from jazc4:

    What's the price for the Pinlights Pro looking like?

    Bill of Material cost is still pending final hardware design. Our target (which should be easy to hit) is sub-$300 for a fully integrated experience.

    Quoted from Gorgar123:

    So is the Customizable Color Palette that is noted as "Coming Soon" on your website going to be for the Classics or just for the yet to be released Pro model?

    Great question!

    Those will be the pro model. The Pinlights Classic editions are for warm white, cool white and UV flasher integration. We pulse width modulate the flasher light rail to allow you to get a blue/purple color tint in line with your GI.

    #17 40 days ago

    Thanks for the reply!

    Also, I might have missed it, but have you said how these hook up to the game's GI and flasher? Do they use wire taps and alligator clips or is it something else?

    #18 40 days ago
    Quoted from Gorgar123:

    Thanks for the reply!
    Also, I might have missed it, but have you said how these hook up to the game's GI and flasher? Do they use wire taps and alligator clips or is it something else?

    Bog standard stuff, wire taps and alligator clips ship with each set. However I'm designing some cable harnesses for the major Spike and WPC connection points to make things a bit easier. All of our sensors have a JST female receptacle on the end, so if you ever need to interface with something custom, you definitely can. For reference, that is JST part number SMP-02V-BC, and any "custom" connectors would need to have SMR-02V-B, which mates with our longer sensor cables.

    Though for permanent installations, I like to clip the alligator clips off, strip the wire and just solder onto the lugs directly, then run the cable back up through the wire harness to the back of the game.

    #19 39 days ago

    Gotcha. The harnesses definitely sound interesting, as I have never been a fan of the wire taps and soldering feels a little too permanent.

    #20 39 days ago

    Please make a generic video install for the cabinet/power, and then custom install videos by machine type where it connects to. Users would get a much better experience compared to having to read manuals, locate unique flashers, triggers, and board solder points.

    In fact, having harness or bulb kit by machine vendor or specific game is much more preferred than alligator clips, soldering, splicing or probing connectors.

    22
    #21 39 days ago

    Never understood why there was a monopoly over a product like this that is currently ridiculously overpriced. Competition is good so I'm happy to see something like this being offered. Not a fan of these lights on a lot of games but for certain ones, they look great.

    Good luck.

    And if there is a patent on this type of tech, then lmk b/c it would be news to me.

    29
    #22 39 days ago

    Do you have a Neo Atom Matrix Photon Neutron Nebula model? If so please describe it in a way that leaves me with more questions than answers.

    #23 39 days ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    Never understood why there was a monopoly over a product like this that is currently ridiculously overpriced.

    Becaue it's not a monopoly, it's a cult.
    I think it's hopefully calmed down by now, becaue the last challenging project got shelled by zealots if memory serves

    #24 39 days ago
    Quoted from Doctoroctos:

    Please make a generic video install for the cabinet/power, and then custom install videos by machine type where it connects to. Users would get a much better experience compared to having to read manuals, locate unique flashers, triggers, and board solder points.
    In fact, having harness or bulb kit by machine vendor or specific game is much more preferred than alligator clips, soldering, splicing or probing connectors.

    I couldn't agree more. I've got Spike I/II and WPC games that I'm measuring out connectors for. There will also be installation content put out by us directly and linked in every game's installation kit. We've done that for every mod produced at 86Pixels, so definitely look forward to getting those done tonight/tomorrow!

    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    Do you have a Neo Atom Matrix Photon Neutron Nebula model? If so please describe it in a way that leaves me with more questions than answers.

    Who told you about the NAMPNN? It is scheduled to be produced behind the Super Ultra Matrix Phantom Whirly Dirly v2 product.

    Quoted from delt31:

    And if there is a patent on this type of tech, then lmk b/c it would be news to me.

    It would be news to us as well.

    #25 39 days ago
    Quoted from pinlights:

    Super Ultra Matrix Phantom Whirly Dirly v2 product.

    Stop holding out. Spill the beans.

    Of course it better eat the ball or its no sale.

    #26 39 days ago

    Any chance you’d make a magnetic mount for outside the machine? I only use lights like this to lighten up a playfield for streaming and don’t ever need anything permanently installed in a single game.

    #27 39 days ago
    Quoted from tgarrett09:

    Any chance you’d make a magnetic mount for outside the machine? I only use lights like this to lighten up a playfield for streaming and don’t ever need anything permanently installed in a single game.

    Like under the cabinet lighting? If so couldn't you just run the wire out the bottom and put the magnet strips underneath and hook them up?

    #28 39 days ago

    What are the width of the light strips. I like everything I've read so far but based on the pics they appear wider than the OG standard product.

    #29 39 days ago
    Quoted from marspinball:

    What are the width of the light strips. I like everything I've read so far but based on the pics they appear wider than the OG standard product.

    Extrusions are 15.75mm wide (0.6in). - With the magnet mount, that's about 0.65in from the cabinet wall.

    #30 39 days ago
    Quoted from tgarrett09:

    Any chance you’d make a magnetic mount for outside the machine? I only use lights like this to lighten up a playfield for streaming and don’t ever need anything permanently installed in a single game.

    I was thinking the same thing. So one option would be to order a set and also order a pair of the low profile metal mounts. While there is a strip of double sided adhesive on the underside of the metal mount, you don't have to remove the paper liner, or just remove the adhesive altogether and you've got something that can slide in and out of the glass channel and easily be removable from a game.

    I can investigate angled mounts for the cabinet side rails if you'd like.

    Quoted from GCS2000:

    Stop holding out. Spill the beans.
    Of course it better eat the ball or its no sale.

    Shit! I've said too much already!

    #31 39 days ago

    I just grabbed a set for my BSD, we’ll give it a shot

    #32 39 days ago
    Quoted from pinlights:

    I was thinking the same thing. So one option would be to order a set and also order a pair of the low profile metal mounts. While there is a strip of double sided adhesive on the underside of the metal mount, you don't have to remove the paper liner, or just remove the adhesive altogether and you've got something that can slide in and out of the glass channel and easily be removable from a game.
    I can investigate angled mounts for the cabinet side rails if you'd like.

    Shit! I've said too much already!

    Oh good idea, I’ll give that a shot and see how it works

    #33 39 days ago
    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    I just grabbed a set for my BSD, we’ll give it a shot

    Got it! Your stuff goes out this week. They should definitely look great on BSD, though probably at a slightly lower setting than "the power of a thousand suns!"

    Quoted from tgarrett09:

    Oh good idea, I’ll give that a shot and see how it works

    Awesome, appreciate the order! Same to you, your stuff leaves this week.

    #34 39 days ago

    Does the classic model have the nebulating orian's belt vacillating hyper blur mode? Or is that just the pro?

    #35 39 days ago

    It’s so funny that this evening that PinStadiums posted another ad on his thread full of complete gibberish.

    I’m not saying I’m in on this product. I do love that it addresses the same “issue” at a fraction of the cost. I’d love to see this in person and then weigh whether it’s worth it. I appreciate the competitiveness, the more straight-forward honest approach, and the drive. This is a wait and see for me, but that’s still lightyears above the “forever boycott that word salad infomercial guy who litters all corners of Pinside with his overpriced LED strips on a rod” stance.

    #36 39 days ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    It’s so funny that this evening that PinStadiums posted another ad on his thread full of complete gibberish.
    I’m not saying I’m in on this product. I do love that it addresses the same “issue” at a fraction of the cost. I’d love to see this in person and then weigh whether it’s worth it. I appreciate the competitiveness, the more straight-forward honest approach, and the drive. This is a wait and see for me, but that’s still lightyears above the “forever boycott that word salad infomercial guy who litters all corners of Pinside with his overpriced LED strips on a rod” stance.

    Totally understand the sentiment. I appreciate the candor and kind words. These most definitely aren't right for every game and they most definitely have to be seen to get a realistic idea of the difference.

    At any rate, we're here if you have questions!

    #37 39 days ago

    Will you be at Allentown Pinfest? Us Canadians would love to pick up in person and not have to pay shipping and broker fees. Nice product btw. Do you think these would work well on a White water and a Congo?

    #38 39 days ago
    Quoted from king_pin:

    Will you be at Allentown Pinfest? Us Canadians would love to pick up in person and not have to pay shipping and broker fees. Nice product btw. Do you think these would work well on a White water and a Congo?

    Maybe this will help you decide about Congo? The ones on the TFTC are NOT this product, but my DIY. They are dimmed a bit too I believe. Just figured seeing a lit up pf next to a non-lit pf would help.

    IMG_4062 (resized).jpegIMG_4062 (resized).jpeg

    #39 39 days ago
    Quoted from king_pin:

    Will you be at Allentown Pinfest? Us Canadians would love to pick up in person and not have to pay shipping and broker fees. Nice product btw. Do you think these would work well on a White water and a Congo?

    No plans to be at Allentown sadly. However if you've got a friend nearby, I'd be happy to ship sets to them for distribution/collection at the show.

    Regarding White Water, they'd work and they'd absolutely make the playfield pop. I can imagine they'd look fantastic with the snow covered mountain rock formations too. The tight spots you have to watch out for: 1) Bigfoots cave, it's really tall and really close to the edge, so it might take some finagling to get the side shade to fit without touching the bigfoot's cave sculpt. Though I've put notches into the side shade before just to make sure clearances were met. 2) You might have to put the light bars about 1" forward from where you normally would just to make sure that the rear rock formations clear. I'll see if I can test out a set and snap some pics on a white water.

    Congo - The game should absolutely work well. Pinlights work in all WPC games, though to get the mood right in congo, you'll probably want to do a warmer/daytime white setting so that the greens/yellows come out properly on the playfield artwork.

    #40 39 days ago
    Quoted from cookpins:

    Maybe this will help you decide about Congo? The ones on the TFTC are NOT this product, but my DIY. They are dimmed a bit too I believe. Just figured seeing a lit up pf next to a non-lit pf would help.
    [quoted image]

    That DIY solution looks great! How was the build process?

    #41 39 days ago
    Quoted from pinlights:

    That DIY solution looks great! How was the build process?

    A little more involved than I anticipated, but done and installed in an evening. Have spare parts to build another set but haven’t felt a need yet, except Alien, but like I said I want that to be interactive. That’s beyond me. This are dumb lights, controllable with a remote. On/off with game using a smart plug to power the game, as the service outlet is always hot.

    #42 39 days ago
    Quoted from cookpins:

    A little more involved than I anticipated, but done and installed in an evening. Have spare parts to build another set but haven’t felt a need yet, except Alien, but like I said I want that to be interactive. That’s beyond me. This are dumb lights, controllable with a remote. On/off with game using a smart plug to power the game, as the service outlet is always hot.

    They look fantastic, and TFTC is a great (and really underrated) game. I've got you at the top of the list for a set of pros when we get them ready. I'll make it worth your while.

    #43 39 days ago

    I will say one thing I like about the other neo brand is that the channels (ie what you see) are much smaller and less visible than what I am seeing in this thread. That is the only concern I have at this point.

    #44 39 days ago
    Quoted from pinlights:

    They look fantastic, and TFTC is a great (and really underrated) game. I've got you at the top of the list for a set of pros when we get them ready. I'll make it worth your while.

    I’m onboard, just let me know.

    #45 39 days ago

    These look great. Been waiting for the release for a while.

    Maybe a dumb question, but any plans for a "lower" base model? I can appreciate the angle for a Pro model with full spectrum RGB GI lighting. Tinting the white light a bit looks good on certain games. But I was wondering - have you've considered a version without the flasher (and would this even produce a meaningful price savings)? I have some older games (System 11 for example) that would look really weird with purple flashers. All I really want to do it brighten the playfield with GI light.

    Just a thought.

    Heading to the site to order some now...

    #46 39 days ago
    Quoted from Cheeks:

    These look great. Been waiting for the release for a while.
    Maybe a dumb question, but any plans for a "lower" base model? I can appreciate the angle for a Pro model with full spectrum RGB GI lighting. Tinting the white light a bit looks good on certain games. But I was wondering - have you've considered a version without the flasher (and would this even produce a meaningful price savings)? I have some older games (System 11 for example) that would look really weird with purple flashers. All I really want to do it brighten the playfield with GI light.
    Just a thought.
    Heading to the site to order some now...

    Yes actually, this IS something on our radar! I've got some test light bars here that just have the CW/WW dials without the flasher. If there's enough demand, we'll run them. No ETA though.

    #47 39 days ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    Furthermore, how do you think pinstadium will react to a product that... at a minimum... looks to be "inspired" by their flagship product?

    Probably by creating more fancy graphics that don't actually inform you about anything.

    Happy to see another product in this space, especially one that involves 86pixels.

    The hoods look a bit wider than I am used to seeing.. I do want to see how distracting or not they are. Love that they have tried to address real world problems with ownership and not just marketing gibberish.

    #48 39 days ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    Okay, if you'll play along why should we buy pinlights instead of pinstadium products? Is it just a price thing, or do you think your product is better? Furthermore, how do you think pinstadium will react to a product that... at a minimum... looks to be "inspired" by their flagship product?

    From what I see the pricing is WAY better and just having the wire harness alone makes his product better. Pinstadiums are a damn joke. I could not believe what I had to deal with after dropping $400 to get them installed and he did not even know where to do the wire tap on a WOZ when I purchased them.

    #49 39 days ago

    How would these likely look on a CFTBL that has mirror blades installed??

    Thanks.

    Roger

    #50 39 days ago
    Quoted from rogerdodger:

    How would these likely look on a CFTBL that has mirror blades installed??
    Thanks.
    Roger

    I actually have a Creech with mirror blades. Let me toss a set on and I'll take a pic!

    There are 255 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.

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