You've seen how expensive it is out there, right?

It's easier just to throw in the towel and give up. Why bother if you can't ever get out of debt, will never be able to own a home, and will never be able to stop living paycheck to paycheck. That's the mindset, at least.

That's basically what you're fighting against. All the big carrots are laughably unattainable for young people right now.

One thing that basically needs to happen is to find some incentive that they care about enough to work towards and put effort into.

It’s not the kids it’s the parents.

Give them chores when young. Require a job as a teen. Tell them your basement is not an option.

When they graduate and turn 18 they are either in school or paying rent. If in school they need to work for spending money you only pay necessities while they make good progress in class. Ask for their report card.

If that doesn’t work be an asshole all the time and walk around your house in your underwear. They will want to leave then.

If you wait till they are 20 to have high expectations you have already lost.

You want to end up in a small place in the backyard and they have the house.
That way you get to be involved with the Grandkids.
Don't charge them any rent, let them pay the bills. You benefit too.
This assumes the place is paid off.
Might sound crazy but times have changed.
3 Generations on the same Homestead is pretty good.

15.5 year old stepson. Into my life at at 8-9 but only a real stepson a couple years ago. Lived at our home for 5 part-ish time. At that age the parents were saying yes to everything. Grades were amazing at first, now getting lazy. I'm scared. I'll be watching this thread like a hawk.

Kids can be useful at any age if you get them involved…please carry these legs, put these leg bolts on, etc but supervise and add responsibility as and further tasks as you see fit.

The kids at home longer has become a thing and don’t know if it’s an issue but it’s different times we are living in. It’s really about how YOU raise them and set the rules/boundaries. Teach them EARLY how to save money so they can live like kings later. Let them know you are always there to help when/if needed. The truth is some kids figure it out, some take a little time/guidance and there are some that are just a disaster.

Nothing wrong with kids staying at home longer or coming back as parents we are always there to help….but my philosophy is don’t give them a free ride….they must go to school/work. They WILL contribute around the house (chores/ rent/bills). Set reasonable expectations they can meet….goal here is to help them save and not get into crazy debt so they can be independent at some point. Enforce curfews- don’t let them think they can party every night and come and go as they please. It’s YOUR house after all. Its tough but all you can do is your best to teach them to be decent human beings and set them up to be ready to make it on their own…they have to figure the rest out sometimes.

Great topic. Appreciate you starting this thread. For background, I have 3 kids. 5, 7 and 18. I am by no means affluent, but we do ok. Some of the people in my circle are affluent and I can see what you mean, or what I think is the trends that start pushing towards that.

-With my 18 year old, we don’t pay for everything for him. He has everything he needs but not everything he wants. (None of the kids get everything they want). When he was younger we bank rolled his days out with friends or whatever but expected help with chores around the house. When he got older and stopped helping, I stopped offering money for days out. We had him get a job that he needs to go to, can’t call out for BS and it’s his responsibility to go and maintain decent grades. I helped him setup aggressive savings accounts for now while he is working, all that money is his. I gave him his first car, then almost one year to the day he wrecked it while being an idiot (like kids do, I did too). But that was it, no free replacement. It’s a lesson that sucks now but hopefully makes him stronger later in life.

We have friends who give their kids everything. They get shopping sprees at stores regularly just because. Their kids have the newest hot item because they can’t be seen without it. They don’t expect their kids to do dishes or chores.

I’m not saying either is right. To each their own I guess. We all want better for our kids then we had, but sometimes I think over correction happens and kids lose out on the necessary struggle and the skills on how to survive it.

Shrugs…but what do I know - I’ll update back in this thread in 5 years in whether my oldest is functional in the real world or a sloth at home lol.

Honestly sometimes I don't think there's much you can do. Kids are who they are from day one. Some of them are lazy, some of them are self-starters. You can encourage certain types of behavior, but only to a point (because kids tend to do the opposite of whatever you tell them to do). Some of them are going to fly, some of them aren't. Siblings in families that have the exact same nature/nuture turn out vastly different sometimes.

We have a 20 year old in college doing very well and a 16 year old boy who's a typical 16 year old boy. Mostly we've let them grow up doing what they want and find their own way, discouraging bad behavior when necessary. We pay for their endeavors when we can (as opposed to making them pay for everything, like schooling for example) because its a great way to transfer wealth to them now as opposed to later, and pay it forward.

One thing that has changed in the last generation is that boys (in particular) don't care as much about the opposite sex as they used to. They've got video games and pron and culture has pretty much taught them that women are a big pain in the ass (re:Barbie) so they're just not as interested. I think this trend has been documented in Japan as well among young men. There's just not as much drive (plenty of conspiracy theories as to why that is) to get out there and do things in a world that seems much more ambivalent to their actions than it did during the last generation. So, overcoming that feeling of apathy (or pretending like you have) is likely a big part of becoming a successful adult for boys.

Just a recent example of that last bit, my son recently had a young lady ask him to prom. He told her, "I'll think about it." I was flabbergasted by that. Are you kidding me?

I'm thinking of moving back in with my folks.

They have a pool!

Raise the kids right with structure ,help them stay educated and build work ethic
The day they move out will be one of the saddest days of your life.

To the extent that high school, including most expensive private high schools, teach you anything at all, they do so very inefficiently.

A teenager that has been tutored outside the school system to some baseline level of competence in any field, perhaps even a notoriously high-competition field like acting or journalism or novelist, seems to me to be perhaps more ready to enter the job market than a typical high school graduate. There's also programming jobs, which by reputation do not always require college diplomas.

There are highly dysfunctional systems in life that we accept as good enough because it's what we grew up with. Look at the high school -> university system with fresh eyes and ask yourself if it is well-designed for the task of teaching skills. I don't think it's very optimally designed for anyone, and certainly not for everyone.

I learned some things in high school. I made it to AP Calculus in my third year and got good grades. Did I learn four years worth? No way.

What path do your kids want to take in life? Why not start now? If it's because they're spending time in high school and don't have the extra energy to be focusing on the real skills to take them on that path, why are they spending time in high school?

If they're not sure what their path will be in life, consider this:
Imagine yourself at that age. Imagine that instead of wasting all that time and energy not learning much in high school, what if you had just picked two career paths that don't require a college diploma at random and spent an hour and a half Monday through Friday on 'mechanic' and another hour and a half on 'professional chef' or 'web developer' or 'small business owner' or whatever. Plus enough time spent on extra learning to pass the GED test to get a HS diploma, which I would imagine is very close to 0 hours for most children, especially the children of the people on Pinside.

Would your life have been worse if you had done that? Imagine if, instead of rolling a die, you had researched and thought about it for five days and made an educated guess.

If they really want to get a college diploma then this plan does not exclude that possibility.

As for how to teach someone to be hard working, I have no idea. But I think even very oblivious teenagers realize on some level that the place they spend hours of their life in five days a week is preposterous designed, and that this probably does have an impact on their work ethic.

I don't have all the answers, but I personally wish I had just been enrolled in a coding boot camp or privately tutored in anything for a fraction of the expense of private school.

Probably this post will rub some people the wrong way for one reason or another. Even if you have the instinctual sense that I am clown, a loser, a d*****-bag, try to contemplate what I have written and extract what you can from it.

I think you're right, but also wrong. Would you be the same person if you had been born in 1776? Or even in 1890? There would certainly be similarities, we know enough about nature/nurture to say that. But I don't think teen suicide rates are high because of genetics. Society has an impact on how people behave. Unfortunately, understanding human psychology is quite tricky, so we are more limited in our ability to understand these societal patterns than we are with, say, weather patterns.

Is it plausible that society is doing something very wrong that is making people and the new generation in particular worse? Yes, it is plausible. Society screws up much simpler things.
Is it plausible that a thoughtful person could figure out how to intervene in their child's life in such a way as to partially counteract whatever society is doing? Yes, it is possible. "Don't be too afraid to try to outsmart the society you live in" is a sentiment that I think both a dedicated progressive and a dedicated conservative would appreciate.

It does sometimes seem like courtship is just something people are expected to know how to do mostly without being taught. Here are a few scattered thoughts on the subject.

1. The fact that young women are on average highly progressive and young men are on average not is a hard gap to bridge.

2. The younger generation is also less empathetic than they used to be. Partially I suspect loyalty to political ideology has replaced empathy. "My honor means loyalty," so to speak.
But what if it's even worse than that? What if part of it is that if everyone in your generation is at least 20% sociopathic the idea of trying to form a long-term high-emotional-investment relationship with someone who is just as much of a partial-sociopath as you are seems like noticeably less of a viable prospect?

Parents spoil their kids and let technology raise them. So many kids you see at gatherings just staring at their phones because parents have become lazy and instead of interacting with their kids or teaching them to socialize, they become recluses living in the digital world. Parents see the Internet and digital toys as babysitters. Kid acts is, they give him a toy to play with.

Kids are not magically lazy, it's how they are raised. They should learn early on you gotta do your part, do chores around the house to earn things, and when it's family time, the phones go away to actually talk and interact.

As for leaving home, that's kind of a separate topic and I don't really think it's totally connected. I mean if they are in their 20s and most playing games and not doing anything, that's on the parents. Now I know various families whose kids in their 20s are home still, and it's not that the kids are lazy, it's just the world is ridiculous now with expenses. Here a small one bedroom apartment runs you around 1k a month on average. Now how is a kid supposed to go to school or get training when he has to work nearly full time to afford rent? And the cost of schooling has historically increased each and every year.

From the families I know, it's basically stay at home and working to save up for a future, or staying at home while going to school. Part time entry jobs for kids are not paying rent, utilities, nor the high costs of food.

Education has gone down the drain too, why go to college, build up huge student loans debts to just get out and be forced into a crappy entry level job? When I went to college everyone rushed into IT, all my buddies got stuck in entry level jobs with years to pay off their education, some still do or have moved into better paying jobs. If you don't got parents paying for your schooling or get lucky with financial aide, your screwed.

Lot of large companies hire talent out of high school.

Go to a trade school or community college.

Avoid “finding yourself” with the university experience.

There’s 0 benefit this day and age for men to get married either. It’s one thing to be living with parents in your 30s cause you never moved out. It’s another to be living with your parents in your 30s cause you moved back in.

Do not EVER pay for a dependents cell phone bill.

It was like feeding gremlins after midnight....

grem (resized).jpg

On a separate but related topic, the reason housing prices are expensive is because the supply of housing is limited by various legislation. This benefits home owners and is to the detriment of young people in general, parents who want their children to move out, and construction companies.

This legislation comes in many forms. Environmental protection, historical protection, protection of neighborhood character, overly strict zoning laws. These goals are not wrong, and often noble. But in practice they usually serve as a mask for something that I consider to be gruesome. Sometimes these laws are voted for due to greed on the part of home owners (or even apartment renters), other times due to insufficient understanding of supply and demand. Many people do not have the economics literacy to understand how a law like rent control raises the price of housing instead of lowering it.

Furthermore, people expect that the price they paid for their house in a well-functioning system ought to increase over time, instead of decreasing like a car. The reason housing prices have increased is, to my understanding, largely because the voting public has enacted legislation to limit their supply, to the benefit of many ordinary American adults but to the detriment of the country and the country's future as a whole. Think of it a bit like a pyramid scheme, where the value comes not from fraud but from artificial scarcity.

Edit: this point isn't as well-structured as the other two but you get the idea hopefully.

Don’t get advice from a hobby forum where the subject matter of the hobby used to cater to the outcasts and yes I was proudly one of them

(Sorry but I couldn’t resist)

2 things make a good kid, in my opinion, discipline and being taught to work. My kids, 36 and 34 now, both worked on the farm during harvest and in town. Both learned at an early age if you want something, earn it, don't ask for it. Both went to college on athletic and academic scholarships, and Both had jobs waiting upon graduation. We have a great relationship with both, im fortunate they live and work 15 miles from us.

It is not always the kids fault
I know a couple of women my age that did everything they could to keep a kid at home, a kid at home gave them an excuse not to seek out a life partner
I know an older man, rich, but did not leave home until his mid 40's due to a controlling mother

Some good points in here so far. I think there's two issues that need to be separated:

1) Some parents are raising crap kids. Garbage in, garbage out.
2) For those 20-30 somethings that are playing their cards right, there still aren't the same opportunities that us ~10-20 years older had.

Like SantaEatsCheese I'm of similar age (turned 41 a few weeks ago) and thrilled to be into this hobby. Ideally I would've gotten into this all 10 years prior to when I did. I know people who loaded up on $1500 Sterns and $800 System 11s and reap the modern day values. I totally missed that boat.

But at the same time, real estate in MA and surrounding upper class neighborhoods was achievable for myself coming out of college in 2007-2008. I was engaged to my pregnant teacher fiancé making $78K combined, and yet together we could get a (very) entry level house in one of the nicest towns north of Boston for $150K. It was on a main road which we didn't love, so we went to the second nicest town north of Boston for $150K and got a single family home on a cul-de-sac for the added safety. Rates were low, and 20% to eliminate PMI was an easy target to pay off semi-quick.

Seeing how I'm a single father with my son living with me nowadays, spoiler alert, that all didn't work out. But I ended up selling that house, used the gains and jumped the border to another well-off town. This house is still entry-level size, but nicer (allowing me to now partake in this pinball nonsense) and the gains from MA offset the added price of this house. But the kicker was that the rates were still good.

Now my son is older and I'd like to upgrade. But the rates are too damn high. I could easily sell my house for $150K in gains and apply that to a larger house in town. But that isn't an option with the rates. A larger house is going to still have a 7.5% interest rate and that equates to roughly $900 more per month vs. what I have to pay right now locked in low. I'm not going to piss that much away per month, with some longshot hopes I can spend $3K to refi down the line.

CIRCLING BACK: My current pains are from "wishes", but I'm at least set with something that works. But those same "wishes" are what the 20-30 somethings want for their first place. But instead, the $150K houses from 2007-2008 are now $400K+ to be in surburbia, and the rates aren't sustainable at all to boot.

I work with at least a half-dozen kids in the subject age range who have the same Mechanical Engineering degree as I once got, same school. Meanwhile I lucked out getting into the real estate market when it was achievable. They have the same theoretical earning potential as I did, but they have a much higher wall standing in front of them. I don't blame them for feeling like the American Dream is just a dream. It must SUCK to have a good degree, and have basic self-sufficient living being a pipe dream, given the costs of housing/utilities/food/interest...etc. I feel for them. Not a good time. However, if they have siblings/friends that are iPad-raised zombies with no skills, I tend to have little sympathy for them or their parents. Garbage in, garbage out.

If this is a broader statistical phenomenon that is on the rise, then it can't really be the "fault" of kids in some sense. The point of a fault analysis is to figure out what changed, what went wrong that didn't used to be wrong, and fix it. Even if the answer was "this difference is caused by breeding patterns that make this difference genetically different from the last", it wouldn't make sense to say that the kids were at fault. Whatever cause this could have, I can't think of one where the most solution-oriented way to end a summary of that cause is "so it's the kid's fault". The kid's behavior can't really be the root of anything.

On an individual level things work differently, of course. But it's still important to think of fault-analyses in terms of fixing problems instead of just finding someone external to blame who should be fixing the problem instead of you. Where the "you" in that sentence = anyone and everyone who wants to solve the problem, not any one predefined role in whatever the problem is.

Totally disagree kids are who they are from day 1. If that was true we would be feeling at a loss to train and parent them. I realize you don't mean that literally and am not attacking you at all.
Just discouraging when many in society haven't ever even reading 1 much less 2 sound parenting books or better get with good parents and brain storm over the years, go to therapy, learn to set and keep strong boundaries. Now let me some do these things and more and still turn out for now to de disappointing, not want to work, get an education but have tons of stuff. Also plastering face in their phones when others try to interact with them. So of this is to say I have no control what you do elsewhere but in our house this our the non-negotiables and these are area we can discuss reasonable degrees of flexibility. Yes a kid who has never moved it is different than one that go schooling, a been responsible but could be allowed back home, under a time frame and expectations to cook, clean do chores versus treating parents as a place and home just to be used. I'm for kids back at-home paying rather via chores, buying food, cooking and real life skills more than in $ they might not have.Chores, chores, chores. Think what even the smallest to largest kids can be expected. This give them something to go and decreases upset if they see you and the house and just resources to be used.

There are some great books out on these topics. Better ways go into reasons for and establishing healthy boundaries for both generations. One question given their intelligent, motivation and finances what is a reasonable ago for them to leave in many, not all, for the first and not last time. If they don't want college-trade or speciality skills or do they realistically have ang skills that could be formed around a realistic ifcnotccareer at least to pay bills. Or turning the tables and seeing the house as a place to see with servant ts called parents. That is never good at all.

My step kids call me "dad" regularly at 9 and 12.
That said, every point below they know and/or have heard me preach multiple times:

1. They will quote this to any of you: "Jeremiah is a friend we earn and a parent we need, and we need a parent 100% of the time." I am NOT a "cool" parent. I hold them accountable, and any parent who tries to constantly be their child's friend in order to gain cool points is a failure. Kids want boundaries and to be told no. If you are a parent who caves to everything and let's them do what they want when they want all the time with zero limits, you're a failure. They lose respect for you.

2. I lay the cards out on the table. I'm the parent. You're the child. You remember that when you try to cut me off or argue with me cause I will shut that shit DOWN. I'll listen to explanations but don't you try to sell me excuses.

3. At 12 and 9, you both need to start thinking about what you want to do to be successful and support yourself and a family. Not your "dream job" or what you're passionate about. You think I wanted to join the military and get an engineering degree? No to both. I recognized job security, a well paying degree, and a solid career, post-military retirement.

4. My wife and I are both active duty, and we have our post 9/11 GI Bill's ready to give to them to keep them out of debt. That said, it's an unspoken safety net. I want to see scholarships both academically and athletically. I want to see grants and essays being turned in. Do the work. I'm not just giving my GI Bill away cause you sat on your thumb playing video games, and now you dont know what youare going to do to pay for school. Show me what you did to get scholarships and grants, and then you'll get the GI Bill. If not, you'll struggle and go in debt first. Get the fucking screen out of your face as you enter high school. Only person thst is going to look out for you the most IS YOU.

5. I use fear as a tool for change. If an asteroid the size of Texas is to hit earth, nothing matters. Eat, drink and be merry cause we all dying. If something is happening, like they're not brushing their teeth, I use the fear of taking their iPad away for a month, because they know they can take action to change the undesired outcome. They don't and the undesired consequence occurs, they have no one to blame but themselves.

6. Do what you say, and say what you mean. Honor your commitments.

7. Unless you have total mastery of something, nothing easy is worth doing.

8. I'll back your play, but if I catch you lying to me, heaven fucking help you.

9. If you go to college, see point #3. I want to see STEM, medical, pilot, etc. degrees or goals.
If you go for humanities, English, religion, philosophy, history, gender studies, etc. - that's an automatic revocation of the GI Bill. I didn't give you that free money to fuck around. Get a worthy degree that will satisfy point #3.

10. DO NOT HAVE A KID BEFORE YOU ARE AT LEAST DONE WITH YOUR 4 YEAR DEGREE. If you have a kid before that or high school, you will be moved out of my home. This is non-negotiable. Keep your dick in your pants and your legs shut until you're done with school. I love you, but I don't have to support you and your brain dead stupid mistakes. If you think I'm staying home snd watching your kid while you go to college classes, you are SORELY mistaken. You will be moved out, and you'll be left to sink or swim. Don't fuck this one up.

11. If I see Tiktok on any of your devices, I will snap that motherfucker over my knee right in front of you. DO NOT let me see Tiktok installed on any electronic device in your possession.

That's all at 12 and 9. Imagine the things I'll say at ages 16 and 13.

If you can pay for their education, do it. Not having debt is a life changer.

Education and responsibility is the key! Also don't smoke or drink or get high while your kids live with you!

Point 9 is spot on, the thing my wife and I agree on is you are NOT going to college " just because" or for some stupid garbage you aren't going to get paid for and unable to pay back a loan. Going to try and steer our kid towards trade school. I'm glad you have the transferable GI bill that's awesome, I was in before that was passed. Ah well.

My son is now 21 and my daughter is 19.

I’ve benefited from advice from friends who are a generation older, two parents who are shrinks, and I’ve read a lot about this subject. That said, anyone who thinks they’re an expert on parenting is misguided. I'm not, but here's what I’ve learned:

- Teach them how to solve problems and navigate difficult situations. Don’t solve their problems for them. This builds confidence and kids who can live in the real world with a helicopter parent or two.

- Let them fail when the stakes aren’t high. They can’t appreciate consequences if they don’t ever experience negative ones.

- Have them work. Others have said this - it's essential. Our kids have both worked since they were in their early teens and take pride in earning their own money.

- Educate them about money because no one else will. Start young. They can't appreciate what they don't understand.

- Make sure you and your partner are on the same page and remain consistent with your kids even when it’s difficult to say no or make tough parenting decisions.

Good luck!

Also in late 30s with kids 10 and under. I see the trends you see as well. In my opinion there are two main reasons which I think about often:

1) Cell phones and the internet have made our lives easier but increasingly too easy. As an adult you need them but for that $50 to $100 a month you can gorge yourself on an endless buffet of content . Not doing so requires discipline that many don't know and some never learned. I look at all the kids now in public with their tablets and phones and fear for their future ability to focus on anything less appealing than a bright and flashy screen. Of course some of this is on the parents.

2) The prosperity many adults have enjoyed is at a cost to the future/younger generations. Just looking at my own life, which I worked pretty hard through and am grateful for...my previous houses, rental properties, other investments...all added to my net worth value but contributed to being a higher stepping/starting stone for someone else. If I tried to repeat my life steps starting now I wouldn't be able to do it. I can easily see how many people in their 20s are looking at the cost of entry to things and feeling hopeless.

I was in line at Home Depot Checkout a while back. A woman was talking loudly on her phone. She said “ my Stupid kid who’s living in my basement Is FINALLY giving me some rent money!” I had to bite my tongue to avoid laughing out loud. I know it’s wrong to find this humorous because It’s actually sad and depressing.

Two words. Don't enable. Kick them out of the house when they're 20 they will learn how to survive trust me. If you don't kick them out you're saying it's okay to be lazy & it will be much easier for them to not live up to their full potential.

Structure at home and continued education. Kids are for a lifetime even after they leave home though. If they're at home after 18 they should be enrolled in college - even a community college works. Have a plan for saving for their education. A 529 plan is a great way to save for your children's education and and sprinkle a little more into a Roth IRA. Make sure they have a Checking/Savings account and know how to manage money.

I worked 32-25 hours a week while commuting to Capitol College (local to you also). They have a pretty good success rate at placing their students after graduation. Paid for my car and helped Mom out with rent while at home until 26 or so. Saved for moving out.

Big difference between just surviving and actually thriving.

Being in tough situations makes us more resilient and more creative problem solvers. If we always know we have a safety net we won't push ourselves to be the best possible version of ourselves. So in short starving isn't too bad in the end it offers experience & provides us with the appropriate insight & tools to be more independent. It's similar to a hot stove & learning that we will get burned if we touch it.

The vast majority of society unfortunately lives from check to check "surviving" if you really push yourself that's when it's possible to thrive but it takes years of hard work and persistence.

I'm not saying this because I was in but the Military is a VERY good kick in the ass at that age. Between me and my siblings I was out of my parents house at 19 and bought my first house at 25. They stayed until mid to late 20s.

Not all kids are the same. I was raised pretty much the opposite of your suggestions.

I did have chores as a kid, but they were pretty much taking out the trash and vacuuming. Never asked to mow, my 45 year old mother would just mow an acre after working a full job and then raked up all the grass clippings. She probably wouldn't have let me mow if I'd asked. Too scared her baby would get hurt.

I had a perfect record in school. Top of my class of about 300. Parents bought me a brand new car when I graduated. I had never driven before (three months shy of 18).

Scholarships to college paid all my tuition plus gave me about $3000 a year extra I could spend on whatever I wanted. Parents gave me $40 a week to live on. That paid for gas and lunch. I stayed with my grandfather for 4 years through college. Paid him rent that probably didn't cover 1/3 of what he spent on me cooking me supper every night.

Got my first summer job between my Jr & Sr year of college. Worked 40 hours a week for 3 months and was left with like $500 after buying lunch and paying for gas every day.

Graduated college with a perfect record, got a job in IT, and moved out immediately. Bought a house in 6 months. Made some financial mistakes like taking a new job and selling that house 6 months later for a huge loss (like a year salary loss). Had to go back to renting for 2-3 years.

Bought 2 more houses since then and paid off both in under 5 years. Nobody has given me a dime since graduation and I'm a "self-made" almost multi-millionaire at this point in my mid 40s. I essentially work my 40 hour salary job, a side hustle reselling junk, another side hustle web application I made that brings in passive income, and I'm working on a 4th income stream right now.

So I was supported as a kid financially, but every life decision has been mine. My parents never forced me to do anything from getting a job to helping around the house. They left me alone to make my own way in the world.

I’ll just say, what works for some won’t work for all. I see a lot of advice in here that absolutely would NOT work for my daughter (10). I’m glad it works for you, but my advice is that you need to find what your child responds to and utilize that to help them become confident. I always went with “what I say goes” and probably did more harm than good with that approach. I have since changed direction and my daughter has been doing much better lately. Time will tell what works and doesn’t and the hard part about that (and the part I struggle with) is you don’t know if it worked or not until later on. Parenting is hard haha

The only blanket statement I will say is that kids need parental engagement so just sticking a phone or tablet in their face is not a good approach imo.

oof! yeah that'll do it!
sorry man

I didn't really have to do anything. All three of my kids (32, 30 and 27) all pretty much knew what they wanted to do right after high school. My youngest did a 180 just before he started college but he's happy doing what he's doing now and that's all that really matters.

All were driven to work, save money and buy their own homes. We are definitely here to help them if an emergency arises, but so proud they try and handle things on their own.

I guess I'm pretty lucky.

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households.”

Hate to say it but Socrates called this in 300 something BC.

All kids and family are different. Boys are very different than girls. There is no one size fits all. All I can say is that you have to be very hands on parenting from day one. It's a lot of work, especially for me become a single parent when kids were young. You have to adapt to changing conditions as kids grow up and learn when to push and when to back off. You have to teach kids everything - how to behave, how and what to think, how to problem solve, controlling emotions, etc. And of course you need to give them endless supply of love and support. You can't just let kids figure things out on their own or learn their values from society. Some parents just are not capable of doing all that and just go with the flow, letting kids get on their wrong path.

My kids are in their first year of college. I had to push them to get their drivers license, get jobs, and heavily help them with the whole college thing. At the same time, I have been letting them make decisions, solve their own problems, and start supporting themselves financial through their teen years. I could easily see them still at home in their 20's. It seems like the maturity level gets older and older.

1. Go away to college, far enough that they have to stay on campus. Going away to school will get them used to being on their own. Personally I didn't go away to school and stayed home until I was 25. Looking back now moving out was more difficult then as I hadn't been on my own at that point. I bought a house that year and two years later got married.

2. Encourage a college degree choice that will actually lead to a good paying job (Computer Science, Engineering, IT, etc)

All of this starts in the earlier days with getting them as independent as quickly as possible. Encourage school sports, and extracurriculars.

My daughter was naturally good in school, but I was too hard on my daughter when it came to discipline in school sports and physical training. She rebelled in later high school years, and I’ll be working on repairing our relationship for a while. Still…she somehow ended up with a good work ethic. She got near perfect grades through college and graduated early (albeit with philosophy and poli-sci degree)…then went straight for a masters in education…to be able to get a real job. We do help her out financially to avoid having herself have to dig her way out of a hole.

She married early: her husband was able to pay his own way through school, come out debt free, and land a good job at a Fortune 500. Also appears to have great work ethic.

How did they end up with good work ethic? At least both of them had firsthand experience “working hard leads to achievement / success”. Also, I believe both sets of parents set example of strong work ethic, and good stewardship with money. (The pinball collection came afterwards!!). While that’s no guarantee that they’ll develop the same way, it at least shows them and lets them experience the path.

I’ll also mention that some of the young engineers working in my group have outstanding intelligence and work ethic. There are definitely some stars/leaders in the youngest adult generation…BUT…I think the gap is growing between those that will HAVE and those that will HAVE NOT. IMO, the legalization and normalization of vices (gambling, drugs, porn, too much gaming, etc) isn’t going to narrow that gap!

That's one philosophy. Another is having a safety net allows you to try different things and take some risks without the crippling stress of not knowing whether or not you have a roof and a meal available to you at the end of the day.

I get that your experience was rough, but I wouldn't wish it on someone if there was another way.

Ideally it would be great if we all started life with 1 million dollars

The Community Rules prevents me from responding truthfully to this thread, considering most of the issues are banned topics.

I’m 27, and most my friends were around my age, roughly. Plenty of friends were zoomers, 20 somethings. WOW! Lots of useless fucks.

I’ve had to cut nearly all of them out, because you are who you surround yourself with. No point is being surrounded by people with zero business sense who can’t understand what I’m doing

Yup, a cousin once told me you are like the 5 closest people around you and years later he's still right.

29 here, it's similar on my end. More than one of my old friends from high school is living with their parents, no job, drugs, etc. I eventually had to walk away from those friendships. As you have noticed, you are who you surround yourself with and unfortunately being a loser seems to be contagious.