(Topic ID: 350515)

Who Dunnit: Left Sling Diode Bad?

By JCO25

4 months ago


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  • 36 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 84 days ago by JCO25
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#1 4 months ago

My Who Dunnit game is having a weird issue. The Left Slingshot is doing 3 commands in the switch matrix instead of one.

It Does: Trough Jam, Top Left Hole, and Left Sling; instead of left sling.

Tried resoldering wires, adjusting contacts and nothing. I think the diode is bad.

Anybody know the diode number? Marco doesn't have any information.
Any other suggestions to what the problem may be?

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#2 4 months ago

1N4004 through 1N4007. Any diode in that range is what you need.

Sounds like you have a switch matrix issue.

#3 4 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

Any other suggestions to what the problem may be?

Did this just start ? If so check what you did last.

Common switch martix issue is a switch wired wrong, diode on backwards. Easy to check the switches in your game, start with the row and column the left slingshot is on, then all the others.

Every switch into your game is wired the same. Black end of the diode to a lug with the white wire, silver band end of the diode to a lug, green wire to a lug. They should all be the same, easy to spot the different one. Look for any that have wires and diode mashed together.

LTG : )

#4 4 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Did this just start ? If so check what you did last.
Common switch martix issue is a switch wired wrong, diode on backwards. Easy to check the switches in your game, start with the row and column the left slingshot is on, then all the others.
Every switch into your game is wired the same. Black end of the diode to a lug with the white wire, silver band end of the diode to a lug, green wire to a lug. They should all be the same, easy to spot the different one. Look for any that have wires and diode mashed together.
LTG : )

Yes, this happened two weeks ago. Did a switch test, resoldered the left slingshot since it was wired wrong. Same result, so I'm thinking the diode is the culprit at this point.

#5 4 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

Did a switch test, resoldered the left slingshot since it was wired wrong. Same result, so I'm thinking the diode is the culprit at this point.

Odds of the diode being bad are slim. The odds it's wired incorrectly are MUCH higher. Yes. You said it was wired wrong and that you re-wired it. Have you considered that you re-wired it incorrectly?

Post an image of how it is currently wired since I assume you didn't record how it was originally wired.

There are many ways to wire up switches in the switch matrix but only a few ways to wire it up correctly.

You should be able to test the diode in circuit. You shouldn't have a problem with a standard leaf switch (which is what slingshots are normally). The microswitch requires special manipulation.

#6 4 months ago

This is how is was wired recently, before my resolder job.

Now it pops up saying Left Inlane switch needs to be looked at.

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#7 4 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

This is how is was wired recently, before my resolder job.

Thanks. I cannot see the switch lugs nor the diode and its orientation. It needs to be a wider angle view. I just cannot see enough in that image.

#8 3 months ago

So I measured the diodes on the left outlane and left slinshot (both circled in blue). They were reading .2 volts on each (should be .3 to .7 volts according to homepinballrepair.com). Also, the connector was in J206 instead of J207. Maybe one of these could be the problem?

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#9 3 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

Yes, this happened two weeks ago.

The left outlane switch is incorrectly wired. It is unlikely that it spontaneously wired itself incorrectly.

#10 3 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The left outlane switch is incorrectly wired. It is unlikely that it spontaneously wired itself incorrectly.

Lol! Very true Victor. White wire is soldered to the banded side of the diode. Should be soldered to the non banded side.
Easy fix but can be a tough investigation.

#11 3 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

the connector was in J206 instead of J207.

Doesn't matter. They do the same thing. Look at their traces.

Move the white wire from the silver banded end of the diode to the black end of the diode. As DumbAss pointed out.

LTG : )

#12 3 months ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

can be a tough investigation.

Not always if you pay attention to Williams wiring pattern. Solid color on the wires, not stripes to quick check.

Every switch in the game is wired the same. White wire to black end of diode to a lug. Green wire to a lug. Silver band end of diode to a lug.

Once you study it a bit, looking over the switches top of playfield and underside of playfield, only takes a few minutes to quick check.

And look for any lugs squished together, or if you changed a switch or target recently. Start there.

Get that down and you can save a lot of time and trouble.

LTG : )

#13 3 months ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Easy fix but can be a tough investigation.

The following cites the above as the basis for comment but the comment is not directed to HEP.

The investigation is the part that requires work. Often from the person asking for the help. Quite a few times, the person wants a quick and easy solution or suggestion to fix their problem. That is rarely the actual outcome.

I was trained in a profession that taught the approach to an investigation is made up of two important things.

  1. History
  2. Examination

The history requires not only asking questions but getting answers to them. There's plenty of examples of questions being asked in response to requests for help that go unanswered. An unanswered question hampers the person attempting to provide the help since there is missing information to make an assessment.

Examination often requires visual inspection. Since the help is being provided remotely, what is visible to the person asking for help is not visible to the person providing the help. This is the reason I always ask for images. There are numerous examples of "I checked the wiring and it's correct" when, in fact, the wiring is incorrect. There are also numerous examples of "no evidence of corrosion" when, in fact, there is evidence of light (sometimes heavy) corrosion.

Agree with the above advice. Fix the wiring (as suggested) and try the tests again. If the tests still result in multiple switch closures for a single switch then post some more images of the wiring. Particularly wiring that may have been recently changed. These games do not leave the factory wired incorrectly. They end up being wired incorrectly when someone changes something.

#14 3 months ago

Thank You DumbAss and @ltg. I will look at it this weekend. Also, finally replacing a ramp on Who Dunnit, the center one. Damn those things are expensive!

#16 3 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

Also, do you know if this diode is compatible with the micro switch for the center ramp?

No idea.

Search for a 1N4001, or 1N4004, or 1N4007.

1N4001 is usually used, I like the other two. Higher voltage and if you accidentally put on a coil, they work there too.

LTG : )

#17 3 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

Also, do you know if this diode is compatible with the micro switch for the center ramp?

The factory used a 1N4004 general purpose rectifier diode. It is rated at 400V and 1A. You can use a 1N4007 (1000V) as well. These are readily available from many electronics merchants - Marco is not the only place that carries these.

#19 3 months ago

Get a few extra while your at it so you can keep some on hand.

1 week later
#20 3 months ago

If the tests still result in multiple switch closures for a single switch then post some more images of the wiring. Particularly wiring that may have been recently changed. These games do not leave the factory wired incorrectly. They end up being wired incorrectly when someone changes something.

So, I have successfully installed the new ramp, with a new micro switch and diode for the right side. Left outlane has been resoldered correctly, but left slingshot is still doing the weird thing.

The switch edge test reads as follows:

Left Sling: Trough Jam (WHT-BRN/GRN-ORN), Top Left Hole (WHT-BRN/GRN-YEL), Left Sling (WHT-BRN/GRN-BLU).

Nothing looks weird on the left slingshot wiring, so maybe the top left hole and Trough Jam, someone crossed wires?

#21 3 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

someone crossed wires?

Have you looked over all the switches yet for any wired wrong, diode on backwards ?

LTG : )

#22 3 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Have you looked over all the switches yet for any wired wrong, diode on backwards ?
LTG : )

The left slingshot looks Ok, Haven't looked at the Trough Jam or Top Left Hole yet. Pretty sure one of those two is the culprit.

#23 3 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

Haven't looked at

Quoted from LTG:

Have you looked over all the switches

2 weeks later
#24 3 months ago

The tech and I looked over the telephone diode (1st Photo). Should be correct.

I traced the wires to a connector under the playfield, may be the culprit. Also, back of the board looks funky. Maybe a second culprit? (2nd and 3rd Photos)

Still on the hunt for backward diodes and/or crossed wires.

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#25 3 months ago
Quoted from JCO25:

The tech and I looked over the telephone diode (1st Photo). Should be correct.
I traced the wires to a connector under the playfield, may be the culprit. Also, back of the board looks funky. Maybe a second culprit? (2nd and 3rd Photos)
Still on the hunt for backward diodes and/or crossed wires.

Always look for a single cause that explains all things you are seeing. The more you change (re-wire) the more locations for possible error. Always change one thing at a time and RE-TEST. I would advise clearly documenting the history (changes) that were made and showing images of the wiring of the changes. Since the reader of this thread cannot see what you see, posting an image is important as a means of second opinion.

That 16-opto board has had some prior work done to it. If you suspect the board then disconnect J5 from the board and re-run your switch test. Ignore the error reported about checking fuses. The error is reported because you disconnected the trough optos and the software looks for that. Just enter switch edge tests and report your findings for the problematic switches.

1 week later
#26 85 days ago

Well, I screwed this up. Found a Green and Yellow wire loose next to the ground; screwed it into the DMD speaker. Also, put fresh batteries in the holder and cleaned holder from acid damage (flexstone and contact spray). Now the screen looks like this when I boot up (Picture below); also D20 on the MPU board is flashing constantly. The other green and yellow wire is unscrewed, but now I am totally stumped. Any advice?

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#27 85 days ago
  • Re-seat the 4 position 34-pin ribbon cable at all points. Be sure you have not inserted it off-by-one in either X or Y axis.
  • Make sure you have J116/J117/J118 power to the DMC board.
#28 85 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Re-seat the 4 position 34-pin ribbon cable at all points. Be sure you have not inserted it off-by-one in either X or Y axis.
Make sure you have J116/J117/J118 power to the DMC board.

I did that. DMD and power back on. Most likely, it's wired wrong somewhere down below.

#29 85 days ago
Quoted from JCO25:

I did that. DMD and power back on. Most likely, it's wired wrong somewhere down below.

So did that fix the display issue? "DMD and power back on" does not specify if the display issue has been fixed. It could mean that you have power allowing the random dots to be displayed. It's not specific enough.

If the display is now functioning correctly then what is/are the issue(s) that still need resolving? I can't speak for others but since it takes a week between posts I have forgotten what your current issues are since a lot can change (that you may or may not have documented) in the space of a week's worth of time.

#30 85 days ago

Yes, the display and power and now working normally.

The left slingshot wiring is the issue that I am currently working on (activating the telephone instead of just using the slingshot).
It's the one that may have been wired wrong.

#31 85 days ago
Quoted from JCO25:

The left slingshot wiring is the issue that I am currently working on (activating the telephone instead of just using the slingshot).
It's the one that may have been wired wrong.

Post images of the wiring if you are unsure. More eyes will allow more assessment.

#32 85 days ago

Here is a picture of the left slingshot wiring currently.

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#33 85 days ago

SOLVED: The white and brown wires were on the wrong side of the diode! (On Banded side, supposed to be non-banded!) I did a switch edge test, only reads left sling now! Thanks DumbAss and LTG for all your advice!

#34 85 days ago

A thought did occur to to me @dumbass. When the telephone is shot, it will lock a ball. When the second ball is shot, it will launch the first ball out. Is that part of the ball lock for the game?

#35 84 days ago
Quoted from JCO25:

When the telephone is shot, it will lock a ball. When the second ball is shot, it will launch the first ball out. Is that part of the ball lock for the game?

Sorry. I don't know the rules for this game. When I do diagnosis, I primarily determine results from diagnostic tests not game play features.

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