Rollergames
Williams, 1990On my rollergames I am having a issue with the #9 flashers being always on with leds. This game is a later run with the backbox modified to have the backbox flashers. If I have incads in the backbox the #9 magnet flasher in the playfield will be aways on. If I remove the flashers bulbs in the backbox the playfield flasher works normally. Then if I try leds in the backbox #9 spots they will stay on constantly.
Any idea what this issue could be?
from Pinwiki: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Flash_Lamp_Problems
"Note: If LED flash lamps are installed instead of incandescent lamps, the 330 ohm warming resistor must be removed from the circuit. If it's not removed the lamp will remain on, albeit not at full intensity."
Quoted from Gogojohnnyquack:from Pinwiki: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Flash_Lamp_Problems
"Note: If LED flash lamps are installed instead of incandescent lamps, the 330 ohm warming resistor must be removed from the circuit. If it's not removed the lamp will remain on, albeit not at full intensity."
That applies to System 11 to System 11A games. System 11B and 11C games use the interconnect for flasher resistors. Rollergames is System 11C.
Quoted from Crimcyan:This game is a later run with the backbox modified to have the backbox flashers.
Double check the modifications are correct. Incorrect implementation is a reason for what you are experiencing.
Quoted from DumbAss:That applies to System 11 to System 11A games. System 11B and 11C games use the interconnect for flasher resistors. Rollergames is System 11C.
Double check the modifications are correct. Incorrect implementation is a reason for what you are experiencing.
It seems to be correct, but I just discovered that whenever relay 1 is activated is when some power goes to the #9's and depending on how many 9's bulbs are installed in backbox makes it brighter, more bulb = brighter ghosting #9 flasher.
So I'm wondering if relay 1 is backfeeding the #9 flashers some power or if there is supposed to be a separate ground for 9.
Here are the pictures of the mod, I mostly just winged it because most info of it is gone
20230912_202621 (resized).jpg20230912_202648 (resized).jpg20230912_202656 (resized).jpg20230912_203110 (resized).jpgQuoted from Crimcyan:It seems to be correct, but I just discovered that whenever relay 1 is activated is when some power goes to the #9's and depending on how many 9's bulbs are installed in backbox makes it brighter, more bulb = brighter ghosting #9 flasher.
So I'm wondering if relay 1 is backfeeding the #9 flashers some power or if there is supposed to be a separate ground for 9.
What is your definition of "relay 1". That doesn't mean anything to me.
Quoted from Crimcyan:Here are the pictures of the mod, I mostly just winged it because most info of it is gone
Can you provide better images of the interconnect board and the wiring of the connectors. Specifically the power wires at the right and the flasher drive wires in the middle. The flasher drive wires do look correct based on what I see but I would like to see more angles and slightly better in-focus images to be sure. Also the resistor values are important to be able to see.
Can you describe (annotate an image) which flasher drives go to which flashers? The lighting makes it hard to tell what is where.
Quoted from DumbAss:What is your definition of "relay 1". That doesn't mean anything to me.
Relay 1 is the A/C Relay on the aux driver board. Which when I hear that relay activate is when these #9 flashers are coming on.
The A/C is supposed to control the switched flashers #1-#7.
#9 Is a controlled flasher which also has a separate circuit on the playfield compared to the rest of the flashers
So I'm almost thinking the #9's need to share the ground with the backbox gi relay instead according to this schematic? Because I currently have all flashers sharing the same ground.
Screenshot_20230913_001839_Gallery (resized).jpgQuoted from DumbAss:Can you provide better images of the interconnect board and the wiring of the connectors. Specifically the power wires at the right and the flasher drive wires in the middle. The flasher drive wires do look correct based on what I see but I would like to see more angles and slightly better in-focus images to be sure. Also the resistor values are important to be able to see.
Can you describe (annotate an image) which flasher drives go to which flashers? The lighting makes it hard to tell what is where.
Only pictures I have at the moment so I just labeled the parts I added or changed
20230912_202648 (resized).jpg20230912_202656 (resized).jpg20230912_203110 (resized).jpgQuoted from Crimcyan:So I'm almost thinking the #9's need to share the ground with the backbox gi relay instead according to this schematic? Because I currently have all flashers sharing the same ground.
I am not sure what you mean by shared ground or same ground. There is only one ground reference in the machine.
Quoted from Crimcyan:Only pictures I have at the moment so I just labeled the parts I added or changed
Where is the RED wire in your backbox image? I don't see it. If you want the wiring to be same for the backbox as in the playfield then you'll need to connect the RED wire to the flasher sockets for solenoid 9, not the ORG wire. The ORG wire is switched only when A/C is C-side.
None of this explains why switch 02 (A/C relay) is closed in the active switch test. Check the 4N25 on the interconnect board. This switch needs to function correctly so the software knows which side is active (A-side or C-side).
Quoted from DumbAss:I am not sure what you mean by shared ground or same ground. There is only one ground reference in the machine.
Isnt the red and orange both grounds for thier respective circuits?
Quoted from DumbAss:[quoted image]
Where is the RED wire in your backbox image? I don't see it. If you want the wiring to be same for the backbox as in the playfield then you'll need to connect the RED wire to the flasher sockets for solenoid 9, not the ORG wire. The ORG wire is switched only when A/C is C-side.
None of this explains why switch 02 (A/C relay) is closed in the active switch test. Check the 4N25 on the interconnect board. This switch needs to function correctly so the software knows which side is active (A-side or C-side).
This is what I was getting at, Where am I supposed to get the red wire from. Do I tap off the backbox GI relay for that, like in this picture?
Screenshot_20230913_085850_Gallery (resized).jpgQuoted from Crimcyan:Isnt the red and orange both grounds for thier respective circuits?
Quoted from Crimcyan:This is what I was getting at, Where am I supposed to get the red wire from. Do I tap off the backbox GI relay for that, like in this picture?
Ah. I see it now. Yes. Check this is the same RED wire (i.e. is continuous) with the RED wire in the housing at 2J7. It should be. Then "extend" this wire to one of each of the lugs of the flasher bulbs for solenoid #9.
Quoted from DumbAss:[quoted image]
Ah. I see it now. Yes. Check this is the same RED wire (i.e. is continuous) with the RED wire in the housing at 2J7. It should be. Then "extend" this wire to one of each of the lugs of the flasher bulbs for solenoid #9.
Thanks I'll check later today, and report back later.
This is what I was going off of and it didn't really specify for solenoid 9. So Hopefully this clears up the issue
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