Take Michael’s offer of a refund mate and see if you can grab another. That’s a horrible playfield. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

The playfield is fine. You can zoom in to any playfield and right lighting and find squiggly things.
Honestly this hobby is weird. Just play the fucking game

Stern made better playfields in the past, what was posted is just garbage.

Not really. It was just trickery with lighting.
Playfield is fine

My GOTG is completely smooth. No ripples, bumps, ridges, sunken edges, etc.

It's not lighting trickery. It's poor preparations, application, and/or finishing of the clearcoat.

With enough play, it's going to result in wear in all sorts of places.

Come on now, that playfield may be fine but the clearcoat is trash. I could rattle can one better with my eyes closed.

Isn’t that right I think anyone could lol

Rattle can clear before final wet sand and buff.

Pinside_forum_7944390 (resized).jpg

Just go fucking play your games. you can take a light and photography and make anything like more than it is. this hobby is a fuck fest of pussies

one thing I will ad. the UV light reactive ink is thicker. which is what you are seeing.
but then again, ya'll will panic over anything.

Got to admit this guy is fun!

Situations like this are why small claims court exists. If you really want to be made whole by Stern instead of accepting your distro's generous refund offer, look up the filing process in your state. Stern will have to waste money sending a legal rep while you can represent yourself, and I'm sure there are many experts here who could help you prove your machine is unfit for purpose and has serious defects. You should at least get reimbursement (if Stern bothers to send a legal rep they may claim you need to go to your distro, but your warranty is with Stern, not your distro) and more importantly, you will have legal proof that Stern sells crap products.

Everyone was hoping his last rage quit was the bitter end.

I have heard this kind of talk before.

"This car is a creme puff that was driven by school teacher. You can't go wrong with this one. "

I would take the offer and return the machine. Social media pressure will not do anything in my book. The existence and continuation of this thread is evidence of that.

Stern doesn't care.

From their point of view they sell every single pin they produce so why would they lift a finger?

I'd send the pin back myself, I know you don't want to but otherwise it's just supporting Stern's attitude towards the public.

We will feed you crap and you will like it. They clearly have forgotten the downturn in the economy that almost put them out of business several years ago.

It was even bad in 2007 when I got my FG too find a good one so went back too where I got it took it back and opened them there went though 2 more before I found a good one too take home so now it’s way way worst wow

It's not slander if what you say is true.

Isn't one of the responsibilities of distributor is to go to bat for the customer? It's a complete buzz kill for you to have to FIGHT for what's right. Takes the enjoyment/excitement out of purchasing a new pin. I'd seriously consider sending the game back if they weren't willing to work with you.

KJS if you want more eyeballs on this issue, make a new thread instead of burying it in the Mirco thread.

Wouldn't you be upset if you got a bad order of rocks, I mean minerals, delivered?

Too late.

Kman is all over it.

Meanwhile me:

IMG_2093.gif

I got told this last night which probably isn't going to help my cause unfortunately.
For the record I don't know him, never listened to any of his YouTube, reviews or podcasts etc.

The full refund offer is generous.

If it were me, I'd keep it and play and I probably would have never noticed it.

If you can't live with it just take the refund. You can always buy a used one (don't worry there will be a ton for sale within a year) and pick and choose your playfields.

Life is too short for this. Just get your money back, and try again later.

Except the distributor has honored his obligations by offering the buyer a full refund. There is no small claims case here.

ripple (resized).jpg

What. The. Fuck.

No words.

In this case; you play the Clear Coat. Having "orange peel" will lead to dirt collection from the ball travel and will be a long term problem and may even lead to premature art damage.

Orange peel will have microscopic impacts to ball travel... but probably not enough to be noticeable.

If this were my game; I'd return it or if I got such a hella deal I'd send the game to someone like HEP to have a correct clear coat put on it (If I couldn't do it myself)

It doesn't look nearly as bad in the video as it does in the pictures. Did you send Stern the pictures as well as the video? Don't get me wrong, it looks fairly bad in the video but I can also sort of see why Stern isn't quick to pony up on the video alone.

My concern is the lack of skill applying clearcoat likely means an already thin clearcoat which hasn't been post processed is very thin. The valleys may not have much if any clear protecting that art. It's hard to know for sure.

Regardless of which way you go, this is a stand up distro.

I missed this part when I posted my "burn Stern" posts. My apologies.

Agreed. A refund was offered. Do the refund or live with any other remedy. If a company agrees to make you whole, there is little room for complaint.

I understand your point here, but I don't think it's the "company" that's offering to make him whole.

The Distributor would take a hit on this refund, for sure. They'd have to try and re-sell the game, likely at less than the refunded $.

They do, they just do QC poorly.

For all the quality control discussion; remember HEP's video of a "new" PF direct from Mirco.
Quality product.

I'm as guilty as everyone; but, please take this off topic Stern issue to a new thread.

The photos/description of the devastating and shocking "orange peel stranger things" playfield have made it into about 6 different threads now so it's hard to keep track.

It's the orange peel stranger things playfield's world now, the rest of us just live in it.

At least Mirco's robots have never left anyone with a citrus playfield, unlike Stern's spray booth operators. Both still require washers.

* that we know of. ;D

For some reason I saw that as "orange peel stripper" which is something I really don't wish to contemplate.

Give it a few years, you'll be happy for an "orange peel stripper"...

Repost..

Sigh.

Someone has to appear like the devil’s advocate in this thread

Serious question, has it been determined if JJP playfields are a different type of make than the reproduction playfields from Mirco? Don’t think we’d ever get Mirco on the record saying the process is inferior for one, but has anyone been able to tell any differences, other than a JJP they saw looked good at first glance? Not looking to rehash examples of JJP playfield failures, but wondering if it’s been researched further.

How can you be a devils advocate for a person making an inferior product for the sole purpose of taking people for large sums of cash?

Because my scratch-built WH2O with a Mirco playfield looks gorgeous (credit given to those who produced the parts purchased, including the playfield, and corrected or re-cleared parts, including the playfield). The other option would have been to restore a beat up, blown out original WH2O playfield and it wouldn’t have come out as nice or even been possible. Maybe others have access to nicer, original playfields, but haven’t seen a nice original WH2O playfield for sale since entering the hobby.

Again, just saying it appears I’m playing devil’s advocate, but only because my end result was mostly positive. Obviously, others have been less fortunate.

Full disclosure, my Mirco WH2O playfield had sunk inserts, chipped clear, wood burrs, an incorrect color, a missing through hole, and was warped. HEP didn’t stamp my playfield, but did fix my issues. If it wasn’t for HEP’s expert restoring and re-clearing skills, the end result wouldn’t have been positive.

I’d love to say my playfield is a HEP, but alas, no stamp, haha

If it wasn’t for HEP, wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.

Would love to see more options for playfields, because competition helps the customer

WH2O

It’s up to you if this is playing devil’s advocate or just me sharing my experience, which required HEP to make positive.

My perspective is any new playfield is going to require re-clearing.

That is a strange question. Why would there be different types or processes used in making a play field? A slab of plywood is a slab of plywood. But the quality of the wood used and the type of adhesive used would affect the quality of the final product, I imagine.
I can't see Mirco keeping different qualities of plywood in stock and taking up shelf space.

Mirco did reveal to me in and email where he sources, or used to source, his plywood from. Since the email was private communication I consider his information proprietary and won't reveal that unless he said OK. But considering his sources (plural), I am surprised he is even able to get any plywood at all.

I cannot see why the process would change. Again, a piece of plywood is a piece of ply wood with the obvious answer that producing one unit only is going to be more costly that producing in quantity.

For the looks test, I have had opportunity to play 2 Godfather LE's and 1 Premium. I don't know how JJP uses LE and Premium for its different levels, but all 3 looked fantastic. I will have opportunity to play all 3 of these JJPs again and perhaps see how they hold up after some playing time.

I think that is the point of this thread and the responses from many. If you purchase a new playfield, it should come ready to install. Period! For the price paid, it should be a quality, lasting product. It shouldn't be a hit or miss item.

A new playfield shouldn't come with asterisks.
It's new but you need to redo the finish and put a quality clear on it, you need to use washers under the posts, there might be some artwork or text missing, the inserts might not be flush, etc.

A respectable company should be one that corrects issues when discovered and make right those who have purchased a defective product. The revenue generated from this would certainly pay for the time and effort involved to produce a quality product.

I agree with Zitt in the respect that it is a cascading issue in that manufacturers don't include a pf as a warranty item.

It becomes a captured audience in the direction the hobby has gone. New playfields are needed, not only in new production, but to keep many of the older machines desirable and playable.

I can respect the fact that this process is very involved where shortcuts only result in poor results. I hope we're not at the point that craftmanship is gone at the production level, but it seems we may be with this company.

I have a several titles that I would like to get a new pf for, but I don't want to roll the dice in getting a defective one. I also refuse to "feed the dinosaur" and reward anyone who provides a sub-par product.

I can think of one reason the process would be different for both products and that is cost. If Mirco can get more for a playfield from JJP than he can from selling playfields to us hobbyists then he can put more into the production of them. He may cut some corners for the non JJP playfields to save money.

I wouldn't expect him to use different types of wood but less pre and post-processing, less coats of clear, less cure time etc. are totally possible.

Ukrainian and Russian Birch?

With Stern, they at least used to say that they put extra clear down on LE playfields. Not sure if that's still the case, but ideas like that could be differences that are easy to implement. I don't think Mirco playfields have too little clear, though. It seems thick enough, albeit soft. Maybe JJP plywood gets stored so that it dries straight, whereas reproductions could be fresh and sold fresh, and the storage cost isn't there. My impression was reproductions did have small runs, but sometimes you were sold a playfield from the beginning of a fresh run and other times from the end of one.

Agreed, which is why there should be concerns over any JJP playfield. Can't imagine paying $12K for you to then have to deal with playfield issues that require you to tear apart the brand new game to have it re-cleared. If there are tons of JJP playfields out there with playfields that are having issues, like with reproductions, where is the outcry? If there are not, then what is the difference between JJP and reproduction? It's obvious that if you get a reproduction that you can expect it to require work if you want it to last. The ceramic clear coat is essentially a layer of this laid down:

Ceramic

All good points.

Am I reading this right? The playfield has a ton of issues that HEP fixed for you, yet somehow Mirco gets the credit for the playfield being gorgeous? Hep could make that STh playfield look gorgeous too. Would that get Stern off the hook? What the hell is this logic?

I don't know if Mirco does the steps in the same order for his repro PF's as his JJP PF's (like cutting them after clear is applied) but otherwise they should be the same process. Direct printed, clearcoated, whether its repo or JJP. The JJP playfields should have art removed around the posts, that seems to have been one of the big solves for the pooling/chipping problem at the posts. Repro playfields won't have that in most cases.