(Topic ID: 355380)

Jungle queen relay and start up problems

By majorrager

12 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 46 hours ago by HowardR
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 12 days ago

I completely tore down my fully working jungle queen cabinet and playfield to perform a full restoration. Upon reassembly, I'm unable to get it to complete the start sequence. In checking the relays, I'm finding on "Q" (game over) that I have continuity between the make or break stack blade marked with an arrow (black/ yellow) and the middle blade (yellow/ blue). I pulled apart and completely seperated the stack and get the same result.

When I pull the pictured lightbox Jones plug, continuity is lost. I get it back when I jumper the wires with the jumpers on them in the picture.

Using the contact point of the Yellow/ blue wire at the coin unit gives same result.
I'm weak reading schematics (and working on em's), so can take additional pictures if more of them are needed for reference.

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#2 11 days ago
Quoted from majorrager:

II'm finding on "Q" (game over) that I have continuity between the make or break stack blade marked with an arrow (black/ yellow) and the middle blade (yellow/ blue). I pulled apart and completely seperated the stack and get the same result.

You can't reliably measure continuity in circuit unless you understand the circuit. When measuring continuity you're essentially asking your meter to tell you if there is a complete circuit between the black-yellow and yellow+green (not yellow blue) wires on either side of your switch (in the red box). There are likely several depending on the state of the game:
Jungle Queen continuity problem (resized).jpgJungle Queen continuity problem (resized).jpg
If you start at the black-yellow wire on one side of your switch, at the top of the schematic above and go to the right through the Game Over and Flashing lights, you can get to the yellow+green wire on the other side of your switch through:
- the #1 Ball in Play light
- the 1st Player Coin light
- the Tilt light
- the 1st Player Score lights
- the transformer and the 15 amp fuse

A continuity measurement can easily lead you astray and usually isn't necessary. Do yourself a favor and put the meter away when working on EM games. Instead, write up a clear description of what's not working and ask for some help here in the forum.

Note that the game manual probably has a step by step description of the reset sequence. Knowing how far you get through the sequence will help others help you.

/Mark

1 week later
#3 4 days ago

Thanks for the response. I went back through the startup sequence, and figured out that under a scrap of good wrapper, my game over relay coil was fried. I replaced it as well the crispy ball 1 relay coil.
Game starts now, but will not advance past player 1 ball 1. Everything scores as it should, but when the ball drains, nothing resets and it just stays in an infinite loop of player one ball one.
Replay button adds players, and if I manually advance the player unit, it switches players and advances balls, but it will stay on whatever player and ball I leave it on, and game won't end even if I advance all the way through.
According to the startup sequence, everything works like it should up until after step 9.
I've inspected everything in the described sequence and schematic, and it all looks like it should.
I'd like to try jumpers to isolate the problem, but not sure where to start bypassing components.

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#4 4 days ago
Quoted from majorrager:

but when the ball drains, nothing resets and it just stays in an infinite loop of player one ball one.

Does the Add Player Unit (P) relay activate when this happens?

#5 4 days ago

It does when the trough switch is activated after the ball is kicked out of the outhole.
Switches on the relay appear clean and adjusted as well.

#6 4 days ago

If the Add Player Unit (P) relay doesn't activate the Add Player Unit solenoid,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

#7 3 days ago

I was able to previously find that circuit in my schematics. What I struggle with is where exactly to place the jumpers along the way. What should be my first points, and am I looking for the wire colors and the associated leaf of the switch or coil they're attached to?
For example, I found brn/wht/red on the U relay switch and then jumped it to same color on player unit coil, and the coil fired and player advanced. What's my next move?
Should one end of my jumper always be on the player unit coil?

#8 2 days ago

I figured out the jumper method and where to apply them and the player unit coil fired along each step. In doing that, I realized I've been diagnosing the wrong problem. The ball count wouldn't advance past ball one and my ball one relay wasn't staying energized after drain. If I manually held it in when it crossed the trough switch, everything worked as it should. I went through the schematic and cleaned the 4b switch and made some minor U relay adjustments. It's a miracle! The game started and played exactly like it should for exactly two games.
Now at game over, pushing the start button activates score motor and reset banks, but AX relay won't energize. If manually pressed in game continues as it should. I'm digging into diagnosing that problem right now.

#9 46 hours ago
Quoted from majorrager:

pushing the start button activates score motor and reset banks, but AX relay won't energize.

Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

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