I'm so touched you noticed...

I don't know how a company staffed by former Williams designers, artists, and programmers would create something that is totally devoid of similarity. I think you're wanting there to be a lack of similarity for some reason, but I don't know why anybody would care.

jar155 and RobT: at this point you've both said your peace, please take any further discussion between you guys to pm or put each other on ignore if you would not mind (or just do nothing, also fine). Thanks guys.

I'm in for doing nothing. He's been on my nuts for a while, so i decided to give it back for once. I'm done and have already been ignoring anything he posts for a while. I don't have any interest in Internet slap fights.

Don't flatter yourself.

How about that subforum ban on Silverballz? Since you're in the moderatin' mood

LOL, of his four posts in this thread the last was four days ago and he was thread ejected from this thread (4 hour eject warning)...unless I am missing something.

Give us reports when you see what you feel is trolling so we see what you see. We read all the reports.

If you wonder why people like Keith are never coming back to this cesspool, this is a good starting point

I know this was moderated but he's not wrong. No one wants their employees some place they are going to be mercilessly berated and the only penalty is the same kind of time out you give a toddler.

Nonsense. Keith is a great coder, but he didn't have to get into all out internet wars with everyone that disagreed with him. Several other programmers, game designers, etc seem to be able to post without going down that path. Plus if it's a cesspool why are you here?

I'm looking forward to getting some games on the Hobbit as the code progresses. I don't think the layout will ever allow it to catch up to LOTR but time will tell.

If Pinside is so bad then why are you here?

I think TH all the way around has passed LOTR. Decals, playfield, code, sound, music, callouts, etc. The list continues. I like LOTR but it has been dethroned.

I hope you are right, more great pinball is a good thing. It definately has better decals and sound. Playfield art for sure as well. Playfield layout LOTR wins by a mile though. Currently I prefer the calls outs and music on LOTR but that might change with more code.

The hobbit does look much better than lotr, but lotr shoots way better. The hobbits playfield is pretty awful, I was excited to play it but really let down. Im glad the code is coming along and making it better. But I dont see it being a top 10 game though.

LOL

I was literally getting ready to make a post stating the exact opposite.

Hobbit shoots way better than LOTR. I love LOTR, still one of my favorites, but saying that it is a good shooting pin just isn't accurate in m opinion. Its definitely on the clunky side. Orbit shots are not clean. Right sword lock is a clunk fest. Path of the Dead sucks. What makes LOTR a great pin is the ruleset. There is nothing particularly good about the layout of LOTR as it's a pretty simple fan layout. The ring shot is super cool though.

Hobbit is WAY smoother to shoot, and the orbits are perfectly smooth, clean, and satisfying.

Everybody likes different games is all, I found th really clunky and floaty and boring, lol

I do agree lotr has some imperfections, and that the code is part of what makes it amazing. The orbits are not supposed to be clean, because of the tower shot, I like the sword lock actually, but do agree the potd is just ok, not really as fun as they could have made it for sure. But overall its an amazing package.

Hobbit isn't smooth like LOTR.
It isn't supposed to be.
It's a fricking shooting gallery of a game, and I love it. The ball simply hits more things than LOTR in The Hobbit, so it travels less distance before it changes direction. And I think that's what I LOVE about TH.
There are PLENTY of flow pins that have come out over the past 15 years.
But NOTHING remotely like TH. Not even close. And I think it's a blast.

bothpretty_(resized).jpg

Going off their writing styles, screen names, and avatars- I do not think they are women- likely they are men. Because men own a Hobbit pinball machine. So I guess maybe you are right, and one of them really is a woman. A woman that doesn't own a Hobbit pinball machine.

.

What does GOMEZ always say, a great machine needs 3 amazing shots. (or maybe it's 5, I can't remember). I agree that LOTR has some clunky shots. And some shots are 'meh' like POTD. But when you compare LOTR's best shots / most satisfying shots with The Hobbits, it's hard to put the Hobbit in the lead.

LOTR's Best Shots:

Locking Ball on Sword
Bashing Balrog During Fellowship Multiball
Legolas Ramp
Center Ring Shot

Haven't played The Hobbit that much, but for those who have, what shots are equal if not better than the LOTR one's I've mentioned?

Hitting the 'E'lf drop target - hard

Why does it always have to be either one or the other an pinside?

What makes LotR so great is the combination of rules and shots, which I miss so much in TH.
I can actually bash Balrog on LotR, and I can actually bash the Trolls in TH. Good stuff.
Apart from that the shots in TH just feel much more disconnected from the theme than in LotR, which in my book has pretty much the best theme integration of shots I know of. The feel of every shot matches it's corresponding character and they all feel very different from each other.
Also the rule integration on LotR is second to none. When guiding the fellows over the bridge, I am actually doing just than: Hit Balrog, dash over the bridge (which of course are the ramps). When the Ents attack the tower, throwing stuff in the "Orthanc Orc pit", I'm actually shooting pinballs into the pit around the Orthanc tower. When hitting Barad Dur it's actually the Barad Dur tower falling. The ring shot really is a ring I'm shooting.

This is stuff I just miss so much on TH. I've got access to 2 THs now due to friends owning it and put maybe 6-8 hours on the game over the weekend. I'm really trying to get into it but it just doesn't click. I always feel slightly helpless and lose track of what I'm doing, most probably because I'm not a "display guy". I hardly ever look up to the display on any game, I want the pf to lead me though the story as far as possible and not just the display. Having a second one on the pf doesn't really help, it's just total information overkill to me.

TH may have the best rules ever and I can understand pinheads loving it for what it is. But to me it can't ever be the perfect spot-on theme integration in every aspect (art AND shots AND code) that makes LotR shine over so many other pins. TH to me is, looking at the whole concept, closer to ST: Rather generic (as in "not connected to the theme") shots with beautiful decoration and nice effects around them. I love ST a lot, by the way, but I love it for the speed & flow, the actual theme integration is terrible.

Love the build quality of TH, though. Still waiting for JJP to make a pin I really enjoy, maybe the next one will finally be "the one".

Information overkill? It's overkill to look at a small playfield screen saying "shoot left ramp" or "shoot left loop"

Wow

What is it about LOTR that makes it easier for you to understand the rule set? Just because TH has 2 displays doesn't mean you have to look at them to know what's going on. As with any game you need to learn the rules, which you admit you haven't yet. There are lights and callouts on the pf to assist you, the same as any other game. I love LOTR, btw.

Well TH hit just today in the morning my garage... from there it is an expected rough journey to the basement...

I am really curious about how much I will like this machine. The main reason for buying was that is totally different from the machines I already have/had.

LOTR is a truely great machine... code is awesome... the concept of Gift of Elves (reward for compelting modes or achieving supers) is still one of the most motivating goals in pinball. I don't get why this is not copied by other coders/designers... and everything is on the playfield like someoneelse is saying... inserts for the gifts, bulbs for the modes... so it is easy to see what already is achieved. Even though the software is quite extensive... once you got it, it is pretty easy to understand.

And that's one of my concerns about TH... hopefully it is easy to understand and well structured... it is not about getting everything within some games but it is about having chance to understand what you do, where you are right now and what to do to progress to the "stage"... I want to know, what I do and not to drop into wizard modes accidentally

In my opinion, the theme integration on TH is better than that on LOTR. I have LOTR and I love it, but I feel LOTR falls short of TH at the moment, and I think the gap will widen over the next few code releases. LOTR is a great pin and will not leave my modest collection. However, I believe TH is totally entertaining and a much more immersive experience overall. Very glad I have both.

Good thing is, we have choices!

Off to water my money tree....

Man there is nothing similar between the two except for the theme IMO. For me TH gameplay is sorely lacking compared to the brilliance of LOTR. I know we all have our own tastes though so glad to see so many enjoying TH.

I agree. The games are totally different. I don't think they are remotely comparable other than set in the same fantasy universe with a couple of the same actors and they were both coded by the same master.

I don't think it is fair to compare either game to the other one.

I own both LOTR and TH. I haven't turned on LOTR in about 3 months, and I play TH every day. But everyone has their own opinions. Both are great games, but I have owned LOTR for 5 years and have played it a lot, and so TH is a breath of fresh air. It is a much more advanced/newer machine and just has such a different way it plays, it is a great variety compared to a lineup of Bally/Williams and Stern's.

Both ramps on hobbit are satisfying to shoot. They do feel like different ramps. I thought they wouldn't. They're as satisfying as the ramps on lotr. For some reason the left orbit feels pretty satisfying to hit. And the two holes are very hard to hit and that feels satisfying when you it it. The pop ups are pretty fun to shoot and if you aim the two center pop ups properly, you can combo the pop up and bounce up the ramp for a ramp shot.

One area the hobbit shines in satisfaction is its use of the lockdown bar button. You're constantly having to take your hands off the flippers and press that button. It starts out at 1000 points but adds 100 points very one you hit it. On a good game I am buttoning 6000-7000 points per press. That's a good 300k points in just that button for the game (that's a lot of score in hobbit).

Well said. I have been playing The Hobbit non stop and have not touched my other pins. When I had league night about 3 weeks ago, I sucked. It's so different than any pinball I have ever played. It's Fantastic.

Play Into the Fire and try to tell me a mode in LOTR that compares to that one. Video display integration is unreal and the mode is very hard to beat. Finally got through all four stages today. This mini wizard mode utilizes all but the bottom left beast.

I really enjoyed the Barrel Escape scene during the Hobbit movie, so I'm sure that mode will be awesome as well. Knowing Keith, it'll have a much different feel that Into the Fire. I'm assuming a lot more pop bumpers and captive ball hits from the upper right flipper. Hopefully that is what is added to the next code update.

I still would like to see a mini wizard mode that doesn't use the pop up beasts at all.

It might not be fair, but just how The Hobbit Trilogy will be forever compared to The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, so will the pins.

The bar has been set very high.

I think it's ridiculous to say that you can't compare Hobbit to LOTR. Of course you can! Comparing them to each other does not mean that they are the same or even similar. Comparing two pins against each other includes pointing out their differences where they exist. And as Guinnesstime says, given the themes, comparisons of the two pins are obviously going to happen.

Hell, there is a rather large thread comparing Hobbit to GB. Obviously two very different pins, but that doesn't mean that you can't compare them against each other and point out the obvious differences when doing so.

Fair enough, one can compare watermelon to goat's meat if they want. I guess my point is the game's are pretty darn different and saying one is a suped up version of the other seems strange due to the substantial differences.

No doubt. Good point.

I think it's fair to compare them or any game just a Rob and Guinnesstime said. However, the title to this thread forces one to accept that the games are similar and then asserts that Hobbit is the better of the two games. I think it's quite fair to point out that the games are nothing alike based on the thread title.

Exactly, no one is saying you can't compare them, but the 2 games are so different in gameplay,layout and appearance that its impossible for one to be the other on steroids, I think these comparison threads are horseshit with the exception of someone wanting a similar playing game with almost the same layout, rules etc. whats the point, to degrade LOTR's? People waited a long time for this game and its cool to be overly enthusiastic and feel insulted when others display disappointment in a persons 8K toy but that's pinball, I keep seeing this comment "I haven't turned on any of my other games since I got the TH" that happens for me with every new pin I buy, that's all I play for a few weeks, is this something new to the hobby? I don't think so.

The only comparison I can make is I have my LOTR and I am still waiting for my Hobbit. So they are pretty frkn far from similar in that regard. Hurry up with the Aussie shipment!!

I sure hope they're completely different since I didn't really get into my lotr and sold it. I played TH at Texas show and was disappointed in how they were set up. I know they appear to set them up a little slower so stuff doesn't break but not only was it hard to get up the ramps but I think the ball may have almost stopped coming down the ramps?
Can't wait to get mine and play it with play field at an angle instead of flat! If I can't get into it like lotr I'll just sell it, but I think I like where it's going so far. We'll see