My gut feeling is they’ll do a Premium, like they did with Luci.

I'm guessing many of you guys may have abandoned the John Wick hype thread due to the madness of Gungate, so thought I would share my first impressions of John Wick Pinball after watching some of the stream here.

First impressions, while trying to keep it brief. No doubt there a stack of things that I have missed.

ART: Randy nailed it, captured the theme perfectly, dark but great color balance, just right for the world of John Wick.

AUDIO: Freakin' awesome, Charlie Benante got the vibe of John Wick and captured with intensity. Callouts from Ian McShane are clear, on point and well done. I dig the echo effect from the operator.

PLAYFIELD LAYOUT: Elliot did well with a 2 flipper open fan. The 3 ramps are smooth and makeable with nice returns, no brick shots no clunks.

TOYS/GIMMICKS: Although it comes across as being sparse, there is enough to get it over the line, Just. The car is cool and thankfully not an oversized bash toy. Marker and crate, yeah ok I guess, nothing radical. A couple of nice diverters to maintain flow. The red circle drop is cool, will add action and strategy, Ball lock nothing special, but cool none the less. The Continental, yeah. Edgelit cityscape is well done.
I would have loved to see 1 extra coil for a left outlane kickback or a Jack Danger overdrive post.

CODE: 0.80 a lot going on already with tons more to go, No doubt Tim and team will deliver an exceptional 1.0 in around 8-12 months, I have no problem with this, good things take time. The excitement of new code is fun and updates are now so easy with IC.

GAMEPLAY: Fast and flowy, plenty of action, exactly what is expected for a John Wick pinball. No stop/start plenty of intensity. The audio will really get players pumped.

LCD GRAPHICS/VIDEO: Movie assets are on point and thankfully a ton of unedited action scenes from the films. Graphics team have nailed the art, Character stills and all other animations are off to an excellent start. No doubt there is a lot more to come.

To conclude, I am very impressed, not blown away at this stage, but obviously the best is yet to come.
This game will be next level with IC integration complete.

Well done team John Wick.

Game is a winner !

This art?
Poor Winston

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You don't think that looks like him?

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It’s the wax museum version

Winston got a face lift on the art package.

“I think ___” can’t be an inaccurate statement. It’s just my opinion. I think Elwin would agree that each of his new releases have been better than the last, with Jaws being his best.

My playing is fine, happy to prove it to you if you’re ever in Atlanta and want some friendly competition.

The one thing I hope Stern changes for the next release is to have a better release strategy. They can keep the teaser trailer, but kill the story trailer(useless) and on release day have official live streams setup for 8pm central that night. I really do feel like a lot of negativity for Jaws and Wick was due to the ridiculous drawn out release schedule. I don't care about the youtubers having early access and them posting videos, but I do feel strongly that they live gameplay stream from the Stern crew should be within the 6-8 hours of the unveiling of the machine.

Yeah the rules in Venom are awesome. I like to play with progress, but I know people who play both ways. You definitely want to know how to play from Level 1 if you are playing in tournaments... Hard to imagine how more choices could be a bad thing? Venom also has cool game modes where player one plays against the other three players combined. Or player one plays in impossible mode (no cradling) and the others don't. I think there are at least eight game modes on Venom last I checked. That includes normal game and start from the beginning if that is what you want!

I disagree AIQ shoots well but not better than IMDN. JP I just don't get and have played it enough and still think it sux. Godzilla is hell of a lot of fun and I still play maiden the most. Yet to play Jaws as I live on the arse of the earth.
But that's just my opinion man

They can do whatever they want, even a new Edition of Pro/ Premium, like with Munsters Premium colour or AC/DC vault with bell, BUT they won‘t artificially limit it, hence it‘s no LE.

The Next Stern Cornerstone Pin is due out on or about 18 September 2024!
Stern revealed (3 May)within the 2 week predicted release period of 18 May. This is right on schedule. It is a very safe bet that we will get the next teaser from Stern on a Friday in September with a game overview the following Tuesday followed by a gameplay stream on Friday. Very strong odds game is on the floor at the Chicago Pinball show. As of today (5/13) strongest rumors are for a new Metallica released on the new Spike 3 system.

Star Wars 5/31/2017 (147 days after Aerosmith, the first cornerstone Spike 2
Guardians of the Galaxy 11/2/2017 (156 days after Star Wars)
Iron Maiden 3/25/2018 (144 days after Guardians of the Galaxy)
Dead Pool 8/3/2018 (131 days after Iron Maiden)
Munsters 1/12/2019 (162 days after Deadpool)
Black Knight SOR 3/25/2019 (72 days after Munsters)
Jurassic Park 7/26/2019 (122 days after BK SOR)
Stranger Things: 12/23/2019 (150 days after Jurassic Park)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: 5/27/2020 (155 days after Stranger Things)
Avengers Infinity War: 9/2/2020 (98 Days after Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)
Led Zeppelin: 12/15/2020 (104 days after AIQ)
The Mandalorian: 5/11/2021 (147 days after Led Zeppelin)
Godzilla: 9/14/2021 (126 days after The Mandalorian)
Rush: 1/4/2021 (112 days after Godzilla).
Skipped release (Doesn’t count… publicly announced Skip from Stern).
Bond: 9/22/2022 ( 261 days… after Rush… counting as 130 (261/2) due to skip.
Foo Fighters: 2/28/2023 (160 days… after Bond).
Venom: 7/11/2023 (134 days after Foo Fighters).
Jaws: 1/2/2024 (175 days after Venom)
John Wick: 5/3/2024 (121 days after Jaws)
The average time between cornerstone releases is now 134 days.
Next Stern Pin is due on or about 18 September 2024.
*Note that only “cornerstone” games with a Pro/Premium/LE pricing model are included for the purpose of this exercise.
*Note dates are now anchored after first youtube video teaser confirming the video and not the gameplay reveal. This usually is a teaser on Friday followed by short game video on Tuesday and gameplay reveal on Friday.
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2025 - TRON: Legacy 15th Anniversary Edition

2026 - LOTR 20th Anniversary Edition

No one called me out on messing up LOTR. Meant 25th

"Play better" is a Steve Ritchie quote floated around in these situations. Don't get so defensive.

Also, IMO Elwin games go GZ, Maiden, JP (i actually hate it but i get it), AIQ.
I haven't played Jaws or Bond60th.

I got the impression from the interview that Spike 3 is a whole platform re-fresh, but that it was coming in "stages". So maybe one game has the backbox/cab redesign but you'll need to wait until the next game for the updated electronics. (Think funhouse using some Sys11 parts while being mostly WPC).

I’m familiar with the man and the phrase. But my offer stands, I always enjoy company, especially from my friends in Canada. You’re going to love Jaws, hope you get to play one soon.

Well I have been watching tons of WICK footage and it just is falling flat watching. One thing that keeps throwing me off is the bright neon green and pink lines running straight in the middle of pf on art package. If I want to watch 55 minutes of movie footage-I will go to the movies

I have also come to the official decision that I do not care for expression lighting at all. The strobing effect with shots starts to get annoying to me and just watching it makes me nauseous. What it did is make me confirm that I do not want a Metallica LE anymore. It will be Premo or Pro depending on layout and features for me. Bring it on Borg!

If Metallica is true (looove the band and stoked for another met pin) I’ll be very curious if stern weaves a non-band sub-plot into the gameplay via modes. Seems more challenging but worthwhile to do in a unique way with band pins. Personally I think the approach Danger took with Foo/Aliens was pretty cool and brought some added fun to what would otherwise just be a ‘help the band play shows on tour’ story.

Allright people. I have some solid numbers for what does and does not work as a theme.

Below are estimated sales of Stern Pins (Spike 2) as listed as on location and at home in pinside collections as of 1 April 2024. The numbers are not perfect, but it gives us a pretty good idea relative to one another what sells and what doesn't. Also note Jaws was just released when these numbers were collected.

I've added a column for the year the franchise the pin is based off of was launched, and when the last entry in that franchise was... counting movies, albums, and TV series.

You will note that every one of their top 10 selling pins has had a relevant release in the past 5 years. Of the bottom 10 selling games, half have not had a relevant entry since the 80s or later. It looks to me that Sterns best selling pins are relevant... recently.

I am only reporting facts here people.

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Cmon Spike 3, give it to me in 7:2:2!

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Wicked shit album- I wish they disbanded after Cliff's untimely departure. Could have immortalized some really great metal.

Deadpool at #3 is a little surprising to me, figured Star Wars would be there.
Percentage wise, Bond 60th is pretty well accounted for, 35% of the 500 games produced.
Beatles is at 25% of the 1969 units that were supposed to be produced.
Even if Rush had another run, I'm not sure it'd climb past 12th.
Interested to see how Jaws trends in 2-3 years.

I wonder where Elwin stands already in terms of lifetime sales numbers for Stern.

It's already immortal and they still put out some pretty good music afterwards.

Eh, music is subjective, personally I don't enjoy anything past MoP.

it doesn't have Metallica (around 2357) or ACDC. Jaws is already near 1k. it's a flawed but fun way to look at the only data available anymore.

He only included Spike 2.

I don’t think I have ever liked anyone’s later music more compared to early. When I played, we spent 8 years putting together a library of 38 songs. I imagine when a band signs up they are now under contact to spit out 10-12 songs every 12-18 months with a team anround them wanting to change the sound with the times. Doing all this while you’re busy as hell and enormous life changes. I would say they have done well.

I really hope Pokemon is not the next title. I want it to be the rumored D&D title. In this climate the nostalgia associated with these books will sell many more machines than Pokemon.

It seems like IC is going to be a huge part of Pokemon, but it sounds like everyone is not on board with IC. I use it from time to time with my Bond, but I definitely scan it less and less these days.

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Hell yeah second edition!

It's always cool to see people engaging with numbers, showcasing different perspectives and approaches. This enhances my appreciation for the hobby, of its workings and helps me set realistic expectations about upcoming games. Fun stuff!

An all new Metallica would be amazing. If Lars is kept out of it like guns are out on Wick, I would be so so happy... F that guy.

Pretty sure it's just a refresh on the original Metallica LED version pin in a Spike3 wrapper. The only real question is how will the graphics be handled for the LCD. Emulate the DMD (hopefully not!) or redo the graphics for the different LCD aspect ratio and make them color (fingers crossed).

I will predict the new Metallica will have concert footage and "photo" artwork.

I know Gomez didn't say this outright.. but I Get the feeling (based on his brief tron comments) he agrees. Having a screen with emulated dots is a waste of a screen.

Star Wars has to be higher up. Plenty of Star Wars fanatics with a Stern Star Wars that don't use pinside.com. Plus literally every location has one.

Yeah, they have been cranking that game out for 7 years

That list is useless, not only for ownership numbers overall, but also as "proof" that current themes are better sellers than non "current" themes. There are so many other factors (other than theme currency) as to why games are as popular as they are.

For example:
* Godzilla and JP are Elwin and 2 of the best layouts and rule-sets ever designed - JP succeeded even though it was effectively a generic dinosaur theme.
* Led Zepplin was an average and uninspired design at best - theme relevance had nothing to do with its success.
* Beatles and JB60th were expensive boutique runs with unique layouts and limited units.
* B66 and Elvira were not normal releases with no pro (a huge factor in ownership numbers).
* Star Wars would have been huge regardless of whether it is currently "active" as most of the new stuff sucks.
* Stern usually only does "current" themes anyway so of course the list will be skewed to current themes.
* Black Knight SOR is effectively non licensed so it's "currency" is the game itself.
* Jaws is not current but has only just been released and will likely at least be in the top 10.
* Munsters was panned due code direction.

Another idea or wish was an option for music pins to mix it up would be to only have the instrumental versions of the songs in addition to the original tracks with vocals. Not sure if this is easy to do or not.

I thought I heard the new Metallica is all new with a new layout? If it is rehashed with LCD and rainbow show that will do very little. I think(or should I say) hope it is an all new layout, added performance footage for LCD, and tasteful art. If they decide to do a character/Metallica mix like Poo Fighters-it must be tasteful. Poo Fighters seemed decent and if I had to think of a character type that would work it would be like Rat Fink style with some flare(please let's not redo RUSH art).

This Metallica must be a masterpiece and all the pieces of the puzzle do need to come together including art package. I am holding my breath, crossing my fingers and rubbing my magic rabbit's foot as we speak

If/when we do see a Spike 3 I would love to see it with quality audio system. JJP sound is far superior to stern.

JJP LOL Nothing is superior to Stern.
Not even close. But funny.
I suppose the JJP “glamour” effect and the blinding rainbows, but really WGAS about that lol

Metallica 2:
MET, im expecting new art and enhanced visuals for the LCD (likely old man MET concert footage)

I can’t imagine them toying with the Lyman masterpiece or trying to contend with it by going all new code.
Just guessing, but I think the layout will the same for most part, along with LFS code.

Visually, the pin will look different.

Yeah, shit all over JJP games all you want, but the AUDIO (and I'd add lightshow) is definitely better no matter how much the games disappoint elsewhere...

I freaking hated after a few weeks but JJP G&R is better on paper, looks better, and sounds better than anything Stern ever made. I remember pinside collectively lost their mind when that game released. However, the game was less than the sum of its parts and somehow Stern just does it better.

JJP sound is very good, the light shows and speakers both superior to even Stern LEs from my experience. From my limited time on EJ it looks like they figured out flippers also.

EJ plays amazing, really enjoyed it. Price is the big issue for me. $2300 more for an EJ "platinum" is hard to swallow. Also not a big Elton fan.

Says the guy who only owns modern Sterns. Just saying... No offense.

Similar to Apple and Google when it comes to phones. Google phones are typically years ahead in features and capability, but iphone has the name recognition and volume to drown the competition, and puts out a solid enough product.

EJ is amazing. Not a EJ fan per say but the game is amazing. The flippers are better in this game than previous JJP's. I'll look for an EJ in 5+ years. Prices will be down to palatable levels by then. Look at other older JJP prices.

I like this idea. Most commercially released albums have instrumental versions of songs specifically intended for licensing (typically TV/film) but this would apply to pinball as well.

I like the rat fink idea