(Topic ID: 160064)

Tech: Early Bally Sound Options question

By TheCnyPinGuy

7 years ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

Hey All

I have an early Bally pin and have a question

There is a sound option number 18

01 - chime tones and some sounds
02 - more tones and no background
03 - most sounds plus background

Now on 02 or 03 they sound cuts in and out between balls and no background sounds after a few target hits

Only setting that seems stable is 01 the older game sounds "chime like" and no background noises

I would like the background music and most sound features to work

Any ideas what to look at

I read some guides but only spoke about garbled noises and static

Thank you in advance

#3 7 years ago

Game is a 83 Bally Midway Grand Slam 2 Player I forget to link that above

#4 7 years ago

Even though the manual only calls out audit #18, try setting audit 16 to the end all to '03'.

If it still is not right, check the connectors. The male header pin solder joints on the sound board are probably most suspect.

#5 7 years ago

Have you recapped the sound board and inspected it for bad solder joints at all the male header connector pins?

#6 7 years ago

Okay

I will try that

Seems odd the sound works

But no start or tone and it wouldn't be solid on 02 or 03

I will try you suggestion

Thanks

#7 7 years ago

Okay I changed 16 from 00 to 03 and I had sound until I hit the saucer than no sound

:-/

I'll pull board

I'll move 16 back to 00

18 on 01 is the only stable sounds throughout the entire game

Just wanted the fancy sounds for the kids

#8 7 years ago

ill order a kit from Big Daddy

Only shows 4 caps total

So I'll give it a try

Thank you all

#9 7 years ago

Is big daddy still taking orders ?

Tried to place it and wanted 22,000.00 in shipping :-/

#10 7 years ago

The faq for big daddy states he has a min order. That's why the high shipping

#11 7 years ago

Went with Great Plains

Hope this resolves the issue

#12 7 years ago

It is not going to be the caps based on your description.

before bouncing around and doing board work. Did you do what i said? Set all audits past #16 to 03. All the other games that came out around Grand Slam are set for sound this way. IT is not just option 18 it is 16-19 on similar games like Black Pyramid and KIngs of Steel which I own.

Still no go, it is probably the male header pins with a broken solder joint (assuming all solenoids work properly since they share signals).

Still no go, id swap in a known good PIA, RAM and verify the ROM. (the cpu doesnt check the ROM checksum, doesnt check that it can change the PIA outputs or check that the RAM is good).

#13 7 years ago

Hi

I didn't place the order yet and yes as mentioned above the 16 option didn't change my results but I gave it a try per the suggestion hoping it was typo in the Manual

My book copy doesn't even show what 16 17 or 19 do for the game settings

Seems odd it's works perfectly on 01 but 02 03 sound cuts in and out I am pulling board this evening and will check and reflow headers

So does it seem like a sound board issue or mpu not telling sound board to produce

Game plays perfect - actually pretty entertaining for its era

Thanks so much for your assistance

I'll hold off on buying parts right now until I check over the connections again

#14 7 years ago

Okay while I was in the back box I pressed the red button on sound board and heard different sounds and effects I have never heard before

So does that mean the U4 chip is indeed good

Possible one the the other 4 chips could be bad

Not familiar with the generation but willing to try my best fixing it to proper working order

#15 7 years ago

Here's my board

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#16 7 years ago

Someone re-socketed some chips on that, I wonder if they screwed up somewhere. Take a pic of the backside so we can see the solder joints of the J1 connector and the previous rework.

On a side note, I am surprised Bally Used this sound board over the "cheap squeak" sound board. They must of had extras.

#17 7 years ago

Well no idea on that to be honest

Is this a high end Bally sound board ?

Okay I'll snap a pic of the back of board for you

I don't know if it means anything but I noticed the serial of this game is 000010

Thank you as always

#18 7 years ago

Here are the pics

I reflowed J1 & J2

Took a few pics not sure what you are trying to see so wanted to be prepared

Thanks

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#19 7 years ago

I made this to show you what I'm referring to

Hope it helps and I wasn't describing the symptoms wrong

Thanks
James

#20 7 years ago

I will listen to it later., no speakers on this pc.

I see a few suspect looking pins on the socket change rework, but looks OK overall i guess.

#21 7 years ago

Hrmm.. I am not familiar with the game enough to tell if it is just a missing input signal, I would verify that you have all the proper input signals coming into the sound board, there will be four encoded inputs.. Put the game in sound test, put a logic probe on all the inputs. You can even check at the 4049 inverter inputs and outputs. If all the inputs are good, id swap in a known good PIA, then try a known good RAM, then a known good ROM and then a known good sound generator. Most likely input signal or PIA. Could be that RAM, i have had bad 6810 RAM make those sound boards play noise like when the ball went through a top rollover lane. If it still doesnt work, all the inputs are good, and you swapped all the socketed chips. there is a ic socket problems.

if you are stuck i can probably test/fix the board unless there is some major hidden solder work damage in the previous IC socket replacement.

#22 7 years ago

Hi

I ordered caps earlier today and I will swap those out for the 3$

Then I will look at those socketed chips as you suggest plus ram

they look to be just generic reading the markings on tops

And if that doesn't help what else could it be in your experience

I do not have a logic probe is there a DMM setting I could use ?

I thank you for all your help and willing to learn and appreciate it more so understand its workings

#23 7 years ago

This board is straight forward enough if changing all the socketed chips, and it is still not working properly means you are either missing a signal input (connectors or the 4049 since solenoids seem OK) or the person that replaced the IC sockets F'd up a trace.

if all input signals OK id suspect
PIA #1
RAM #2

#24 7 years ago

Okay thanks

Yes the game plays perfectly and operates flawless minus the sound issue

The knocker coil is de soldered on side lead I assumed to reduce noise on a replay or match , would that cause any of this regarding the sound if not in circuit ?

I will follow up with you on my progress
So if the socketed chips do not resolve this issue plus recapping the board assume the worse

Thank you

#25 7 years ago

Knocker coil is unrelated. Could be disconnected because it is loud or could be disconnected because the circuit has an issue. I would check the solenoid resistance before reconnecting.

4 weeks later
#26 7 years ago

Hello

Back again

I replaced the PIA and Processor on the sound board and I attached a video to it

Please let me know your thoughts on what else it could be

Trying to get it done myself but worst case I guess I'll send it out

Thanks

James

#27 7 years ago

do you have a logic probe?

on the schematic you will see the input connector plug. Four pins will be labeled A-B-C-D. Those are the signals from the computer board to play sounds. The sound select signal is done in a 4 bit encoded pattern. If one of those is bad, you will get wrong sounds.

The A-B-C-D signals will go to a 4049 chip. That chip is an inverter and it flips the signal. When you look at those signals during sound test, one side of the 4049 gate with be mostly HIGH with blips LOW, the other side of the 4049 gate will be the opposite. Mostly LOW, with blips HIGH. Investigate those signals flowing through the 4049 chip and making it to the sound generator. That chip does fail and can cause your symptom.

Pages_from_Bally_1980_Silverball_Mania_Manual_(resized).pngPages_from_Bally_1980_Silverball_Mania_Manual_(resized).png

If all the input signals are good, replace the RAM, then replace the sound generator would be next course of action. The RAM is not tested at startup, you can use a 6802 chip with internal RAM too if you change a jumper.

#28 7 years ago

I don't have a probe :-/

Hmm

Okay so it's def a IC on the sound board not signal from MPU

I have changed 2 PIA and Provessor

so next Ram / sound gen then 2 smaller ones

I will check out probes online check prices

Thanks

#29 7 years ago

i'd do the 4049 next.
then ram
then sound gen

.... depending on your PCB rework skill do the socketed chips first because it is less invasive. Most likely it is the 4049 at this point.

#30 7 years ago

ebay.com link: ELENCO LP 560 Logic Probe with Audio Beeper SPECIAL

great tool. You don't need a scope in most cases of pinball repair and that probe will suffice. Perfect tool for investigating the signals going through the 4049 chip.

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