(Topic ID: 354649)

King pin

By billrz

19 days ago


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Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 days ago by baldtwit
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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gtb_score_motor (resized).png
index flat spring (resized).jpg
#1 19 days ago

Hello, probably a relatively easy question.
Hoping to find out what exactly to clean or adjust to make my 1,000 reel score properly.
Problem is,when hitting the 5,000 targets,it gives me anywhere between 3-5k instead of 5k everytime, it does reward 5k, but only about 50 percent if the time
This is on 1973 king pin
Thanks for in advance for any info

#2 19 days ago

Search is your friend "cleaning score reels" brings up this and another topic:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-score-reels

#3 19 days ago
Quoted from WalrusPin:

Search is your friend "cleaning score reels" brings up this and another topic:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-score-reels

Thank you., it’s not dirty tho,seems to just not make the full spin a lot of the time . I’ll keep trying. Not sure what is the problem

#4 19 days ago

Anything that is a multiple of 5 on an EM goes through a score motor switch.

Consult the schematic and then check the score motor switch — clean and ensure it’s properly gapped.

If it scores 1000 points consistently in other cases it’s not likely to be the reel.

#5 19 days ago

I think this is the most helpful video I've watched on Decagon cleaning and adjustment:

#6 18 days ago

Easiest way to determine if it's the reel or the score motor:

Rapidly hit a 1000 point switch (or the 1000 point relay itself) at about the same pace as the score motor triggers. Do it 10 times and see if you advance 10,000 points. Do this several times. If you consistently get 10,000 points then your score reels are probably fine, and you can concentrate on the score motor switches. If you sometimes only get 7000 or 8000, you will know that it is missing scores even when not running through the score motor, so then you can concentrate on the score reel or 1000 point relay switches.

#7 17 days ago

Here is something to look for: each score reel has a brake that keeps it from back-sliding after it steps forward. Gottlieb called it the “index flat spring” and you can see it pictured here (A-9158) in this diagram from their parts catalog. If you can turn your thousands reel backwards with your hand, it means this brake is not engaging correctly and you must adjust it so that it does.

index flat spring (resized).jpgindex flat spring (resized).jpg
#8 16 days ago

Ok, thank you for that .
I’ve hit the thousand switch fast over n over,no issue, so it’s not the reel.
I’ve noticed the 5k relay isn’t ever triggering (from what I tried) so I think it’s gotta be that one relay ???. Here’s a video of me hitting the 5k switch and it’s not firing , but it’ll still give me 3-5k for hitting the target . Ha. Any more help is appreciated

#9 16 days ago
Quoted from WalrusPin:

I think this is the most helpful video I've watched on Decagon cleaning and adjustment:

Agree. Watched that video before rebuilding reels. Very helpful.

#10 15 days ago

just to make sure ... there's a few ways to score 5K on the game. Are you only having problems scoring 5K from a lit drop target?

lit drop targets don't score via the C relay, they use the B/500pt relay to run the score motor and the D relay to cheat and send the pulses to the L/1000pt relay instead of the M/100pt relay.

#11 14 days ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

just to make sure ... there's a few ways to score 5K on the game. Are you only having problems scoring 5K from a lit drop target?
lit drop targets don't score via the C relay, they use the B/500pt relay to run the score motor and the D relay to cheat and send the pulses to the L/1000pt relay instead of the M/100pt relay.

Outlane 5k and top lit 5k holes both will sometimes only reward 3 and 4K. Also the lit red drop only scores 5k most of the time, but it will sometimes only give you 3 or 4. I can film it , but basically all the 5k awards are sometimes only rewarding 3-4,. I can’t figure it out

#12 14 days ago

Have you tried cleaning and/or adjusting the score motor switches associated with the 5000 point scoring? Dirty or mis-adjusted score motor switch is most likely causing it to miss a pulse or two.

#13 14 days ago

Do you have a schematic?
Can you read/understand a schematic when looking at it?
Do you own a switch adjusting tool?
Just trying to see what your EM skills are.
Chances are very good: score motor switches, score motor switches & the score motor switches.

Quoted from billrz:

I can’t figure it out

#14 14 days ago
Quoted from gjm:

Do you have a schematic?
Can you read/understand a schematic when looking at it?
Do you own a switch adjusting tool?
Just trying to see what your EM skills are.
Chances are very good: score motor switches, score motor switches & the score motor switches.

Very new to em repairs etc, my first one,. No schematics and most likely cannot read/understand them. don’t have a switch adjusting tool,but have adjusted a few switches on here with the wife’s jewelry tools with success..I kinda figure it’s the score motor switch,just not sure which one,and find it weird it’s still giving me some/all points

#15 14 days ago

I don't know if it's been suggested, but make sure to tighten the switch stacks on the score motor. Should be done before adjusting any switches.

#16 14 days ago
Quoted from billrz:

Very new to em repairs etc, my first one,. No schematics and most likely cannot read/understand them. don’t have a switch adjusting tool,but have adjusted a few switches on here with the wife’s jewelry tools with success..I kinda figure it’s the score motor switch,just not sure which one,and find it weird it’s still giving me some/all points

Contact Steve at PBR and get a schematic, switch adjusting tool & flex contact cleaning tool.
By getting the schematic, you can see the whole picture of when people post pics of certain area's in this thread & if you plan on keeping the pin and/or get more of them you really need to learn
The good news is: you have a single player pin which makes things easier to see and adjust compared to a 2-4 player pin.
PBR description, part #'s and price:
Flexable file: part# TL-PLASTONE $2.86
Schematic for "king Pin" SCH Copy $18.00
”L” Contact Adjuster ADJ $4.56

Marco sells a set of adjusting tools for different angles:
Switch adjusting tool set, 3 piece Part # 77-SWK $12.99

Always try and buy all of your parts from Steve at PBR. Why...??? Because he supplies business's like Marco with parts but you can buy from Steve for not nearly the cost from others. Example: A coil from Steve- $10 exact same coil made by Steve supplying Marco- $19.99 & Steve offers a 10% discount on any orders over $100 on most everything he sells.

And remember, 99% of the time you can see the problem. EM repair/diagnosis is very visible to the eye, and have patience. Sometimes trying and doing guess work on things just creates more headaches.

#17 13 days ago
Quoted from billrz:

Outlane 5k and top lit 5k holes both will sometimes only reward 3 and 4K. Also the lit red drop only scores 5k most of the time, but it will sometimes only give you 3 or 4. I can film it , but basically all the 5k awards are sometimes only rewarding 3-4,. I can’t figure it out

5K is scored by pulsing the 1K (L) relay five times. The switch creating the 5 pulses is score motor 1A with red+white and slate+red wires.

you'll need the schematic eventually, but the typical diagram you will find on it is below. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/score-motor-schematics-help for some info.

use the diagram to figure out where stack 1 is, then notice the A switches are on the bottom level ... so of course you care about one that is hardest to see/access It's easiest to find stack 1 by seeing where stack 3 is due to 3 being mounted diagonally.

some of the gtb score motors are mounted on a hinge so you can flip it up and see the lower switches more easily.

the normal problem is the 1A switch has arced a lot and you'll need to file the contacts to remove most of the pits and burning. Get the metal contact file for this as it's more aggressive than the flex. You pinch the blades to apply light pressure while filing both contacts at the same time to make sure the contact faces are parallel.

if the contacts are mostly gone, you get the fun of replacing the switch blades/contacts.

it could also be the switch stack is just loose or the blade needs a little tweaking to get good switch closure.

having said all that, the same 1A switch is used for scoring 500 points, so if 500 always works, the 1A switch is probably not the issue and it's more likely the L relay switch that powers the score reel solenoid is marginal. Could also be a switch in the path from 1A to the L relay coil is flaky so L occasionally misses a pulse.

suggest you watch the L relay while scoring 5K points a few times. If the L relay is always evenly pulsing closed 5 times, that points to a different circuit than if the L relay is sometimes missing a closure.

gtb_score_motor (resized).pnggtb_score_motor (resized).png

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