THis would be awesome if it would make GNR flippers like GF and EJ

It does say it will improve the flipper performance in older machines, so who's going to try it first? Would be good to get someone, who could actually produce some real test data.

Following! Love my GnR and this would only make it better!

Watching this like a hawk - I see discussions in the different owner threads hoping they all funnel here so everyone can compare notes.

Same - curious if this really works b/c I'll put it on my Wonka and Pirates...

Is this I/O board that JJP sells on their website the updated board, or an older one?

http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/The-Hobbit-Parts/I-O-Bd-HOB-Fully-Populated.html

The SKU is 15-004001-01, which makes me think it's the older one?

If that's the SKU, then it's an older one...but you would have to ask them, they may not be updating their website with what they are actually selling...

pinball_keefer - Long shot but any details to share about this board and usage in older JJP's?

It's obvious if you know electricity, which seems we both know enough. I will conclude the same. That board doesn't have any component that can magically make the magnetic power of the same coil any stronger OTHER than what you said. Capacitor can hold more electrons and give those to any coil that the power line simply cannot give to the coil on its own. Take note the documentation on Elton John uses a newer coil that is 22 gauge and the others are 23 gauge also. That would be my conclusion why Elton is better: people at the shows said it was faster and their documentation on coils would explain it.

?

the manual says it uses a 11629

pretty sure they typically use 11629 on most of their games, it's a very common coil

I saw JJP make a comment that the new board is better at heat dissipation. That could make sense for why flipper fade is less of an issue.

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edit: they use a mix of 11629 and the weaker 15411 it seems. I'm a bit surprised if that is really all they did to make them shoot better... they could have done that forever ago

I'd have to re-confirm what my eyes saw last month comparing Elton to (one of) their older games. I swear it was a better coil. Also two local techs that run two separate pinball arcades confirmed they merely put the better coils in and things are better. 2 hearsay confirmations on my end that coils seem to be the thing.

Unless their mosfets were 20 degrees higher after 10 flips, I don't see any reason to believe heat was the issue. We are talking about walking up to a cold game and the flippers being weak right? Not flipper fade?

Be keen here: "May help". The observation (laws) of electricity don't sometimes make electromagnets better. I don't sometimes flip a NIB stern and the flippers feel like JJP.

Man I wish the swap of coils was documented and feedback about performance. With all the smart people out there in this hobby I’m surprised no one has come up with a real solution beyond adding fans.

Here are the coil listing per the manual for a few games (left flipper, followed by right flipper):

FL-15411 - Used for long playfield shots
FL-11629 - Used for long shots and high ramps

Woz - FL-11629 and FL-11629
Dialed In - FL-15411 and FL-15411
Willy Wonka - FL-15411 and FL-15411
Godfather - FL-11629 and FL-15411
Toy Story 4 - FL-11629 and FL-15411
Elton John - FL-11629 and FL-11629

Hobbit - FL-115411 and FL-115411

As for the thermal improvements to the new -07 IO board introduced with TS4, the new board has higher value resistors on all the leds and they have changed to surface-mount parts that are spaced further apart than the through-hole 2W resistors that were used previously.

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It's sold out now, so somebody must be taking the plunge...

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Every JJP owner would want this… IF it works.

Hoping to hear some reviews from those who took the plunge!

A larger cap can increase coil power on an unregulated supply by holding up the voltage between the waves. Gottlieb did this in the system 3 era with their "filter board" to make VUK and similar coils kick harder.
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I bought one. I plan to put it in my GnR, but I may test it on Wonka and/or Pirates as well (Wonka and Pirates flipper feel never bothered me, but GnR does).

Certainly let us know. I think it’s BS that JJP says it might work for 400 but it’s like everyone over there just wants to be fired with all the bad moves they’ve been making, including marketing. Another bone head move.

Yeah let’s not be clear about what this thing can actually do but just say it might work….. with a price of 400. JJP - wake up

If the only thing that is different is the filter caps that is like $10 in parts. The resistors are likely safety resistors to bleed off the high voltage when power is turned off. I am guessing the smaller two caps are for the upper flippers?

Someone who is good at rework can try to replace one with bigger cap and see if it makes it flip stronger.

I think it's just Pinball Life's description, I'm not sure JJP is claiming that.

Terrys no fool I doubt he would make such a bold statement without backup

I don’t know….I just get a shitty feeling about this. I know that in my business I would never get away with “well I did a mediocre job the first time so hey pay me again for a better job”! How about offer a minimal fee to those who feel they have an issue to rectify the problem. Isn’t this more stand up?

But then again, look what they did to Lloyd!!

Kaneda interviewed Jack (on YT I think). He said the flippers in Elton are better because of "hardware and software". When pressed he just changed the subject. So I think it is also JJP's claim.

Either way, $12k+ and to make it truly feel like a pinball machine, you have to spend an additional $400. Their website says 'premium, no compromise'. Except the compromise on flipper power. Like buying a car that goes 55MPH but if you want to drive above 65MPH on the highway you gotta pay the upgrade.

I beg someone, please just strip a couple wires. Solder them to the other capacitors and then to these. https://www.jameco.com/z/LLQ1K472MHSC-Nichicon-4700uF-Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitor-Polarized-80VDC-20-_2348879.html
They don't need to snap into the board. Just place them in the backbox anywhere and create a wire lead to the original board. With shipping this will cost you about $10. I don't own a JJP otherwise I'd do it. The thermal thing has absolutely no bearing. That would mean some random resistor or something heated up the air around the board so hot that it made the Rds(On) of the mosfets so high that they resisted a massive amount of electrical flow. If you look at the spec sheet of the mosfets on your games, check the RDSon graph. Usually like 200F you still aren't that high of resistance. And thats a smoking hot mosfet.

At least he didn't blame the customers.

LTG : )

In fairness I don’t think JJP purposely built their system the way they did and is now trying to stick it to us owners.Maybe you can get a low price GnR and spend the $10 to give this fix a go?

Can anyone explain the technical or design differences that make stern flippers feel so different from jjp flippers.

I really don't know if they like underpowered flippers and it was by design and maybe just now realizing the consumer pushback? Sticking to you or not, $400 ask for extra flipper power without just telling you "we did this which gives more amperage" or something. Just be honest.

According to people who have played their last three JJP titles they are just as good as Stern or better especially Elton John.

Just be honest.

I do agree with this for sure they certainly could be more vocal about known issues

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I think the previous 2 were "better" than previous JJP flippers. The EJ seem to be 100% liked.

I guess I should have said previous two pins were better.Stern flippers will feel better to some no matter what.Personally they feel and sound cheap to me

I think my WOZ flippers feel exactly the same as the Williams flippers on my Road Show which is right beside it.

I doubt having bigger capacitors on the 70v line is going to make the flippers feel different, but they may not lose a bit of power if a bunch of coils are firing at the exact same time.

Well hopefully we get an update whether or not it’s worth $400. So far I don’t see anybody celebrating & dancing that this thing is amazing

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Not yet

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Folllowing…

There's a longstanding debate about which is better between Williams and DE/Sega/Stern flippers. It's a Coke vs Pepsi debate. Jersey Jack uses Williams flippers.

From a technical point of view, IIRC, Williams flippers have a dual coil, one big coil for the initial flip and a small coil to keep the flipper in the up position, while DE/Sega/Stern flippers use a single coil that uses full power for the initial flip and a PWM on the same coil to keep it up. The mechanics are slightly different too.

Jersey Jack flippers will never feel like Stern flippers, and vice versa, so that's not a fair comparison. If you're expecting a JJP machine to have snappy flippers like a Stern machine, that's not going to happen.

Now, the question is, do JJP flippers feel like a Williams machine, or were improvements necessary to get them to feel like a Williams machine?

So far, there are bigger capacitors on recent io boards and Elton John uses the most powerful coil in common use, while some earlier machines use slightly less powerful coils depending on how far the targets are to hit. Other improvements may have been done in software to change the length of the initial pulse. The length of the initial pulse can probably be changed in the game settings, but perhaps some other adjustments were made also. There is also the code running in the U200 ic on the i/o board, but I don't know if it does anything special, but it could.

In addition to the single wound vs dual, I think Stern uses the EOS a bit different. Traditionally the EOS would make the switch from power to hold physically. When it went to digital control, the EOS primary purpose on WPC was relegated to detecting if the flipper bat got knocked down when it should be up (then it repulses the power stroke to get it back up)

Based on a description in Stern manuals, they also do that but in addition, they don’t switch from a power to hold PWM until after the EOS has been closed for a few milliseconds. This likely gives a more powerful feel towards shots late on the flipper. It may also make micro flips stronger as there is a minimum power pulse time

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It absolutely will on an unregulated unfiltered supply. It takes the ripple out of the unregulated supply holding the voltage up. When the voltage wave is near zero it can use from what is stored in capacitor giving a stronger flip.

Gottlieb did the same thing. If you bypass the filter board on a game like world challenge soccer the kick outs will be weak.

I have a full rework station and am willing to test on my existing board. If someone who has purchased the new board can give me the specs on the caps and resistors and anything else that is changed I’m willing to be the sacrificial lamb.

Looks like its back in stock at PBL

I’m more interested with modifying the original board.Any conclusions on this?

The board arrived today, and I installed it into my GnR. I want to preface this by saying, this is as non-scientific as you're going to get.

For the first 30 or so seconds, I couldn't tell the difference. Felt like the same old game. But as I played, the ball was most definitely getting up ramps faster. I even made some combos that I've never gotten before, and discovered some ball paths due to the extra power on the ball. I am pretty pleased with it and excited to try it some more, and in my estimation, this actually works.

I haven't played Eltron John, but MAYBE it feels the same as Godfather now? I've only played Godfather twice on location.

If anybody tries this on Dialed In kindly report here, thanks!

Are you running factory bats/bushings? B/C I experienced the same results going with the complete Precision flipper system.

I am running factory everything outside of the new board.