Hello everyone. I am new to pinball and I need some help.
I got my 1st (only) pinball about two years ago, brought as not working and looking forward to the challenge. Just getting round to having a go at it this week, (I know), and think I have bitten off more than I can chew.
It's a Recel Torpedo (single player) which seems to be all Gottlieb. I cannot find a schematic anywhere, thought I have the schematics for an Underwater (four player version), which I think is confusing me more than helping, (don't fully understand some of the electrical paths).
All the score reels were jammed as well as the ball unit, credit wheel, bonus unit AS relay and the vari-target. I have followed Clays guide and cleaned everything (relay contacts gently) and lubed contact rivets with very thin layer of Teflon grease and cleaned all playfield parts, also checked coils with DMM and coil on 10s score was burned out, which I repalced.
Now for the big switch on and playfield lights, I press the reset (start) button and score motor keeps turning (as expected 1st time), vari target relay is sticking on and score reels not resetting. Found out one of the100 point relay contacts were on top of plastic actuator and not in slot, moved into slot and three of four score reels reset, 10s wont. All score relay contacts look ok. Manually activated 10s relay and the score reel rotates though slight buzzing coming from somewhere and AS relay armature twitching. I have manually set the 10s score reel to 0 (will this work for the reset sequence?), also put a bit of card in the score motor switch to stop the vari target relay from opperating (vari-target in reset position). Now when I switch on, if I opperate the coin switch the score motor moves to its home position and stops, however when I press the start button the score motor continues to turn, guess something is not ressetting, but what? The bonus unit below playfield (step up/down) does not reset (unless I manually activate relay), is it suposed to? I noticed that if I latch the reset relay with the machine switched on the score motor stops at home position and if I latch it then turn on the game it will unlatch, which is the opposite of what I have seen on the amazing YouTube vid "Gottlieb pinball reset sequence" animation by Steve Fury. Other problem is the credit wheel does not move when coin micro switch activated and no apparent relay to opperate? (have added credits to the wheel manually, though guess until game is reset does not matter). I do not know what the AS relay actually does, what operates it or if part of the reset sequence. There is a space on the relay rail in the bottom of the cabinet for a relay labelled AS coins control with no loose loom wires though there is an empty two rows of six Jones socket nearby.
Sorry for the long post and I will try to summarise.

1) Does anyone have a Torpedo schematic or is it the same as the Underwater schematic, (see ipdb.org) and just ignore players 2-4
2) Am I missing a AS coins control relay and just whistling in the wind without it or is this just for four players (board is generic marked Torpedo and Underwater)
3) Can I eliminate items from the start up sequence to isolate problems
5) Is the bounus unit under the playfied part of the reset even though it is step up/down
4) Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated

Best regards
Mike

Hi Textrivers,

Thanks for the welcome and the reply.
Still scratching my head, there will be no hair left soon, opps to late.
The bonus unit seems to light up different bonus numbers on pf as its manually rotated though dont know what resets it. I thought it might reset when credit is entered after the initial game reset if that makes sence. I have loked at all the score reel/relay contacts again and all looks well to my eyes thought the 10 relay has all contacts NO where the rest has at least one NC switch. I should have said in my previous post that the start relay opens then closes when I press the start button and the ball unit (is that the same as a player unit in multi player game)? resets. I have added some photos as they say a picture speaks a thousand words and i am not a good typist. The empty Jones plugTorpedo 003.JPG and AS coin control relay space can be seen bottom middle of 2nd pic.Torpedo 004.JPGTorpedo 007.JPG

Made some progress but don't laugh as I am new to this. Because I was working from the back and seeing four score reels, I thought it was a 10's reel causing problems. Did not notice the two dummy ones at the front making it a 1000's reel !
Kept thinking it must be the zero switch and checked with a meter. Sure enough although making firm contact and after being cleaned with alcohol and filed with a flexi-stone there was no continuity. Looking on the forum, it is suggested to use a small ignition file, which I did and now all score reels reset.
Motor still turns though, pulsing vari-target reset relay and relay on vari-target which is getting stuck on. The target does reset and open the contacts on the unit so guess (1) until the motor stops the vari=target reset relay will keep pulsing. (2) Nothing seems to move the bonus unit and I manually stepped up then down all the way and the motor still turns. (3) Can't figure out what else needs resetting.
I did note that the reset relay does indeed unlatch to start the reset sequence and needs to latch to start game. I have manually latched this relay and the motor stops. If I then activate the coin switch the score motor will move to next home position and parts of the playfield will work, out hole kicker, ball counter which also advances the ball unit until ball six when game over and out hole no longer activates.
(4) Still no idea what moves the credit wheel (score motor switch?), not moving when I activate the coin switch, which does move the score motor.
Any advice with 1-4 above would be greatly appreciated.

Ok getting somewhere.
Cleaned and adjusted every switch, (now the reset (start) button does not work and V-VR reset control relay does not unlatch), however all of the back box and PF lights up. Manually pressing start relay (V-VR unlached) and ball unit in 1st ball position, pressing the out hole switch and then the ball role over switch all the playfield works (bonus resets though vari-target relay still sticking), until game over (ball 6) so must be nearly there. Before I look at the rest of the reset button circuit, I want to get the credit unit working. I noticed a switch blade is broken (completely missing), in the credit unit, the one with two yellow and one salmon/red wires attached, see picture.
Torpedo 002.jpg

Can someone please tell me if this is a EOS switch (so should be closed until EOS) or if it is a bounce switch, therefore should be NC. I am confused as the credit unit is screwed through the adjacent bracket via some springs, which in theory would make the credit unit bounce, however there is also fish paper separating the increment actuating lever which hits the switch at the end of its travel, if this is an EOS switch why is there not one on the decremen coil? I suspect the coin switch would pulse coils therefore EOS switch not required? If bounce switch I could simply jump yellow and salmon wires for now, however scared I may burn the coil out, so question is,

1) Is this switch a bounce or EOS switch
2) Other question, can someone with a similar Recel confirm if the V-VR reset control should unlatch on start of reset sequence and then latch at end of sequence ready for game play. (Torpedo schematic would be nice).
Torpedo 004.jpg

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

Hi,
Thanks.
I did read on Clays guide that its better not to touch switches, and I did not at first, however I also read on the forum that some people check every switch before turning on as it saves time in the long run . (Ask 10 people and you get 10 different answers!).
Short of knowing what else to do, I gave it a go. I have now fixed the credit unit, which adds/subtracks and I think I am realy close to getting the game fully working. What happens now is.....

With credits in the game and v-vr reset relay unlatched when turned on score wheels reset and score motor keeps turning until I latch v-vr (reset) relay, then motor stops. Ball unit does not reset. Pressing reset button does nothing; does not pull in start relay. I manually activate the start relay and the reset relay unlatches, the ball unit resets and score motor keeps turning again until I re-latch the reset relay (v-vr), then the game will play ok. When 1st game is over pressing the reset button pulls in start relay and all is well every game until end of credits.

Latching relay coil 9500 = 10.7 ohms
Unlatching coil 9.500 = 2.7 ohms (seems low but does unlatch, would this be correct? Maybe false reading while in circuit?)
Can any one point me in the right direction or know what that switch on the credit wheel is for?

Thanks for the reply, thats realy helpful and I think you are correct.
Wires are connected so just extended and touched wire ends together briefly, as per an EOS switch. Nice blue spark and loud noise sounding like something about to blow up. Guess knocker would sound loud with PF up. Also got small ring from chime unit, which knocker is attached to so guess thats it and I can live without it for now.
"I have the schematics for an Underwater (four player version)," which is a mixed blessing as Underwater is 4 player and Torpedo is 1 player. Most of the schematics is helpfull, however the Underwater does not appear to have the v-vr latching relay, (can someone confirm), relay V is indicated though can not see VR anywhere. Also some (not all) of the wires are different colours.

Start.png

I am sure its something simple but its a steep learing curve. I can't quite understand the reset switch (replay button) to start relay circuit. My 1st coin chute is WW relay and 2nd coin chute W. (W 1st coin in Underwater). Also I do not have PM1/2 or 3 indicated in part of the schematics or J4 (4th player. Not sure if I have PB (beginning ball) is this the outhole swith or maybe rollover switch before shooter.
I have removed the fuse and checked continuity from the bounce switch to other side of reset switch
brn-wht and all is connected (when score motor in home) so there should be a closed switch on the W (or WW relay). About to get some wire to extend circuit tester to other side of 0 credit (with credit added so switch closed), to see if continuity gets that far. Problem is I assume the V relay in the Underwater schematics will pull in and close the open v switch to pull in the start relay and I dont know how my V-VR relay plays its part in this.
Everything appears to be Gottlieb (or copy). If anyone could post a section of a single player em (about 1975) schematics showing the v-vr relay I am sure I can get it fixed. Thanks all so far.

That much appreciated though I don't need it now, got it all figured out, well almost.......
Letting me know that credit switch was the knocker switch saved me some time as I could rule it out, thanks.

This is what I found.
1) Coin door plug was inserted in wrong position, (originally).
2) Switch on hold relay making good physical contact, however not conducting, (this stopped the reset switch completing the circuit to pull in the V relay which activates the start relay).
3) Zero switch on score reel making good physical contact not conducting, (this stopped the score reel resetting).
4) Switch on score motor reel making good physical and electrical contact, however though wire soldered to tab not making contact with tab?, wire later fell off, (fixed this, now when score reels reset it completes the circuit and pulls in relay VR, which stops the score motor). This latches the relay rather than unlatching which seems to be the case with Gottlieb as far as I can tell.

Thought I was done as all resets, everything appears to work except now the out hole won't throw the ball and the roll over switch wont advance the ball unit. Must be another switch (or Jones plug connection) not making good contact as they did work the other day so nearly there.
Will post a picture when all working and new rubbers installed.
All the best.

Dear Lost,

Sorry for the delay in reply. I got the pinball working 100% shortly after my last post, even the sound board works
about to change rubbers and lamps to led when I was taken ill then the new kitchen got in the way, still is; trying to get done before xmas.

It did take me two days of head scratching and a lot of tracing with a continuity tester and paper notes, can't remember exactly which relay was causing me problems, however narrowed it down to just one switch that appeared to be ok only it needed a very precise adjustment. Hope your Underwater is up and running, at least you have a schematic.

Glad you got it working

All the best