CPR Backglass bubbling issues

Hi all
I like to think I’m not the only experiencing this but I believe it has to be documented
I recently bought 3 CPR backglasses for BW games and all 3 within weeks have bubbled in various parts of the print making them unusable
CPR have been good about the issue I will add and I’m told there is an issue because I live in Australia that something here makes them react like this below
So if you’re in Australia CPR will not sell you a backglass
Is this happening anywhere else?
Seems also that maybe the process to create them has changed as my DE GNR backglass is fine 18 months in but all 3 I purchased recently have turned out like the below pics

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#2 1 year ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,281 70

Wow.

#3 1 year ago

DSM

Lostcause

Pinside member

4y 80,550 1,864 13

Ok in the UK but bought about 2 years ago, that’s nasty!

#4 1 year ago

---

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

10y 238K 31,519 268 9

OP
Quoted from allsportdvd:
I recently bought 3 CPR backglasses for BW games and all 3 within weeks have bubbled in various parts of the print making them unusable

Wow, never seen that before

OP
Quoted from allsportdvd:
I’m told there is an issue because I live in Australia that something here makes them react like this below

I've never heard of such a thing. I can't imagine there's a chemical reaction happening just in Australia. Heat and humidity are usually the things that affect artwork. Maybe that's the issue? I really have no idea.

#5 1 year ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member

Quoted from ForceFlow:
Wow, never seen that before

I've never heard of such a thing. I can't imagine there's a chemical reaction happening just in Australia. Heat and humidity are usually the things that affect artwork. Maybe that's the issue? I really have no idea.

I thought it might have been the same thing but it’s coming into winter here. Also the BSD has been in the packaging the whole time. I just opened it now to check as I’m about finished restoring my machine

#6 1 year ago

CMS

Xenon75

Pinside member

11y 86,800 1,971

Make CPR explain what is so unique about Australia that it is the only place in the world that would happen... seems like a lazy excuse.

#7 1 year ago

REW

woody76

Pinball Marketing

Nashville, TN

9y 142K 6,865 7 98 1

OP
Quoted from allsportdvd:
CPR have been good about the issue I will add and I’m told there is an issue because I live in Australia that something here makes them react like this below
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

LOL. if they are saying it is because you live in Australia they are IDIOTS.

#8 1 year ago

JWG

greatwichjohn

Great Pinball

Halifax, NS

11y 100K 4,532

So stuff like this happens at times with uv inkjet production. My printer used a adhesion promoter which looks a little milky looking. There was likely a problem with the ink, or surface contamination, or the heads had a cleaning cycle, sometimes bad uv bulbs at the end of life. I had about 3% failure over the many years of doing backglass production. I always just absorbed the mistakes of my printer & the process. Sent out free replacements over the years, with shipping. It really sucks when it is going to Australia or Europe. CPR is doing glass on demand. So likely yours were printed at the same time.

#9 1 year ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member

Quoted from greatwichjohn:
So stuff like this happens at times with uv inkjet production. My printer used a adhesion promoter which looks a little milky looking. There was likely a problem with the ink, or surface contamination, or the heads had a cleaning cycle, sometimes bad uv bulbs at the end of life. I had about 3% failure over the many years of doing backglass production. I always just absorbed the mistakes of my printer & the process. Sent out free replacements over the years, with shipping. It really sucks when it is going to Australia or Europe. CPR is doing glass on demand. So likely yours were printed at the same time.

Yea I was able to peel the artwork off the parts that bubbled very easily so doesn’t look like it adhered to the glass very well.

#10 1 year ago

GBN

baltistyle

Pinside member

Baltimore, MD

11y 31,800 83 4

Does Australia do and treatment of goods coming into country with gas or other? Can that reaction cause the issue. Just looking, it looks like adhesion, as mentioned above.

#11 1 year ago

JPD

Dayhuff

Pinside member

Battle Creek, MI

11y 126K 6,364 79 11

Are these just printed on the glass, rather then a usual translight?

John

#12 1 year ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member

Boxes are still sealed when they arrive to me so I’d say no to the treatment
Yes they are printed directly onto the glass

#13 1 year ago

MAL

Drac

Pinside member

Noosa

10y 52,550 227 1

OP
Quoted from allsportdvd:
I thought it might have been the same thing but it’s coming into winter here. Also the BSD has been in the packaging the whole time. I just opened it now to check as I’m about finished restoring my machine

Still could be the humidity causing the problem. It's still very humid here despite coming into winter because of all of the rain. I'm struggling with mould in my house due to the humidity. I'm on the Sunshine Coast btw.

#14 1 year ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member

Quoted from Drac:
Still could be the humidity causing the problem. It's still very humid here despite coming into winter because of all of the rain. I'm struggling with mould in my house due to the humidity. I'm on the Sunshine Coast btw.

Even if it is humid, I have a DE GNR backglass I’ve had for 18 months and it is fine. The 3 new ones purchased bubbled within 2 weeks.

#15 1 year ago

JWG

greatwichjohn

Great Pinball

Halifax, NS

11y 100K 4,532

Quoted from Dayhuff:
Are these just printed on the glass, rather then a usual translight?
John

The printer I used for almost 10 years was running a old Canon OCE Arizona uv inkjet flatbed printer. Printed to wood, glass, plastic, etc. It is not a humidity issue which is evidenced by the bubbling or curdling look of the ink. Any lifting of the ink off the glass looks bad. A lot of early Bally pins had bad glass from poor storage (moisture) which lifted the ink from the glass. you saw this usually at the bottom to usually middle of the glass.
I do not know the printer CPR is using but it is likely a recent model 3-5 years old for technology.

#16 1 year ago

JPD

Dayhuff

Pinside member

Battle Creek, MI

11y 126K 6,364 79 11

So I'm just curious then. Why would you want to spend the time and money on the reproductions as opposed to the original tranlights?

John

#17 1 year ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member

Quoted from Dayhuff:
So I'm just curious then. Why would you want to spend the time and money on the reproductions as opposed to the original tranlights?
John

The originals I have found challenging to get in any condition plus the backglasses have mirror effects not on the originals

#18 1 year ago

LEV

CrazyLevi

Crazy Levi's Pinball

New York, NY

10y 148K 33,894

Kinda cool to see some modern translite games get that old school patina going !

#19 1 year ago

???

Ballypinball

Pinside member

Melbourne

19y 77,550 2,235 43

OP
Quoted from allsportdvd:
Hi all
I like to think I’m not the only experiencing this but I believe it has to be documented
I recently bought 3 CPR backglasses for BW games and all 3 within weeks have bubbled in various parts of the print making them unusable
CPR have been good about the issue I will add and I’m told there is an issue because I live in Australia that something here makes them react like this below
So if you’re in Australia CPR will not sell you a backglass
Is this happening anywhere else?
Seems also that maybe the process to create them has changed as my DE GNR backglass is fine 18 months in but all 3 I purchased recently have turned out like the below pics[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

They are so full of shit, this happens for several reasons

1. Even UV needs to degas, if you pack up the product straight away and the weather is hot when shipped will cause this.

2. if they clean the glass with a chemical it can react with the ink, a bit like painting water based paint over lead based paint or what they are using to wrap the glass in.

3, they are using flexible ink on a rigid material,

#20 1 year ago

JWG

greatwichjohn

Great Pinball

Halifax, NS

11y 100K 4,532

I saw it on the rack at my printer, or after shipping. The off gassing of the ink. This happened also with black ink on playfields with auto clear coats. Wayne & my info is the likely cause.

1 year later

#21 9 months ago

???

MrHailstorm

Pinside+ Frequent

I see this is an older thread but this still seems to be a current issue.
I have this exact problem on a Creature From the Black Lagoon mirrored back glass from them.
So far CPR won't respond to my request for help.
Looks to be exactly the same issue as allsportdvd posted.

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PXL_20230710_162440103 (resized).jpg

#22 9 months ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member

Yep that's the same problem I had. I have stopped buying from them until it's proved their processes prevent this from happening. I believe it's caused by going from cold to warm temperatures in a short period.
My contact in Australia is adding a Nanotech adhesive to the backglass and it has worked 24 times so far

#23 9 months ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,281 70

OP
Quoted from allsportdvd:
Yep that's the same problem I had. I have stopped buying from them until it's proved their processes prevent this from happening. I believe it's caused by going from cold to warm temperatures in a short period.

I had two CPR backglasses stored in the same climate controlled room, one failed as pictured.

#24 9 months ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member

And what was the response from CPR?

#25 9 months ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,281 70

OP
Quoted from allsportdvd:
And what was the response from CPR?

I'll not spend another dime on CPR product, the quality is not what it once was.

#26 9 months ago

???

MrHailstorm

Pinside+ Frequent

Hey All, CPR is working with me. The delay was due to my spam filter catching their reply.
I started an new topic on this one so I'll put updates in that one:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-backglass-bubbling#post-7688486
Thanks!

#27 9 months ago

???

MrHailstorm

Pinside+ Frequent

Hey all, some good news. CPR is going to replace the back glass. Will post when it arrives.

Thanks All!

#28 9 months ago

MJP

twinmice

Pinside+ Addict

Canyon Country, CA

11y 111K 1,539 12

That’s good news was just about to order an Addams and saw this thread, so held my ordering to see what was going on.

2 weeks later

#29 9 months ago

???

MrHailstorm

Pinside+ Frequent

Great News, got a replacement from CPR, looks beautiful. Happy to have it resolved. They turned it around pretty quick. I would have posted sooner but was traveling. Thanks All.

PXL_20230804_185834984 (resized).jpg

1 month later

#30 7 months ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Chris' Pinball Repair

Chesterfield, MO

12y 123K 10,014 46

Any bubbling in the new glass MrHailstorm ?
—
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
Thank you for checking out the PinWiki - http://www.PinWiki.com/

#31 6 months ago

MAC

Sheprd

Pinside member

11y 62,650 547

I bought a Black Knight CPR back glass for a “future” project and put it on a rack in a climate/humidity controlled room. After two years, never seeing any use, it was bubbling all over. I called CPR and the best they would do is give me a small credit on my “next” purchase… that SUCKs. I wish I had bought from Mayfair. Seems like they want to put the blame somewhere else, but I have the perfect controlled test. They printed a layer over a layer that was not fully cured, and trapped gasses. Over time the gasses work their way up and push up the layer above, causing the bubbles. This was a manufacturing process error, and CPR should stand behind their products… If they finally are stepping up and replacing these mistakes, their may be hope for them after all. I will have to contact them again and see if their position has changed.
Added 6 months ago:

CPR has made it right and replaced the bad backglasses I bought. It was the right thing to do and they did it. CPR rocks!

Post last edited 6 months ago: “CPR has replaced the bad backglasses. Don't want to give them bad press. ”

#32 6 months ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Chris' Pinball Repair

Chesterfield, MO

12y 123K 10,014 46

Well crap.
This thread made me check on my FirePower BG received from CPR about 13 months ago. It’s been sitting in a climate controlled area, my homes main level, since the day it was delivered. This is bad and it’s just getting started.

I will be calling CPR on Monday.
—
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
Thank you for checking out the PinWiki - http://www.PinWiki.com/

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#33 6 months ago

TEZ

allsportdvd

Pinside member