I tend to use the back of a hammer with a micro fiber cloth down on the playfield to protect it. Switching from side to side, lifting a small bit at a time.

In my limited experience, pliers scratch the metal.

Good to know, thanks for the tips!

I successfully removed the center post and the game plays much better in my opinion. This is my first older game, so I've been reading a lot of Vid's guides for cleaning and repairing early solid states. I think this particular Black Hole is a good candidate for a full restoration!

New rubbers and hardware (post screws, nylocks, etc.) are on the way from Pinball Life. Next on the list is finishing the ground mods and swapping in LEDs (it has a mix of bulbs and LEDs).

Anyone have tips on how to clean and touch up the cabinet?

Anyone have a spare L drop, or know somewhere with them in stock? Snapped one, looks like Marco is out.

PBR should have the entire set in stock here: https://www.pbresource.com/Blackhole.html

Keep in mind that all of the Gottlieb parts that Marcos sells come from Pinball Resource and are then marked up.

I do, but it's got some wear.

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This I wish I knew before ordering a new plastic set for both playfields from Marcos

I would suggest inspecting them carefully upon receipt. They're licensed reproductions, which is fine. But the drops I bought from PBR for my Volcano were lower quality than the originals. The ink was smeared badly on a few of them, and the ones without smeared ink had incomplete image transfers. IMO, there's no good reason these cannot be manufactured with good images like the originals. Just an FYI.

I would take pictures and call Steve. He prides himself on quality and low prices. All of the Drop targets and pop bumper caps on his site are made in his facility. He’ll check his current stock for defects and I’m sure he’ll offer to send you replacements.

95% of the drop targets and pop bumper caps that Marcos sells come from Steve. So if you got a bad batch from Steve, the ones at Marcos will also probably be bad.

I have a lisy mpu set up for black hole if anyone needs one. Also a ni wumpf driver board with two smoked traces and a gulf pinball power supply unopened.

For sure. Whenever there have been issues with PBR, they've sent replacements. However, when I got my drop targets from PBR many years ago, I was not really into this hobby yet and my machine was very rough, so I was just glad to get targets that were intact and never complained - I thought the smeared graphics were "good enough" at the time. Now that I have become more familiar with pinball thanks to Pinside, I realize I should have said something and had them exchanged for better.

I've had a bit of a random startup issue on bh for years now which always clears itself once I turn it off and on a few times. It doesn't boot and will lock the controlled lights on sometimes or coils or both or none and makes a 10 point sound. Two or three reboots and it sorts itself out. If I was going to ever sell it (unlikely) I'd feel irresponsible letting it go like this. It's had the battery replaced with a memory cap , new eproms ( years ago) but it's still running it's original 5101. I suspect the reset section of the board but it's damage free and looks original. This board was serviced by John Kirby years ago so the workmanship is good. All earth mods done. Some Connectors done
I've seen other similar posts but no obvious solution. Any suggestions?

My System 80 game did the same until I replaced the MPU reset section. Even though I couldn't see any alkaline battery damage, it became very apparent as I was removing parts. Many were cracked and disintegrating in unseen areas... for example, a few resistor leads just fell right out of their resistor bodies.

Ahh ok time for a closer look. Many thanks

Sure thing.

Be aware that I experienced damage that could never be seen until the component was removed. A transistor looked perfect but when I desoldered it, it came apart; and I consider myself very competent and able to remove good IC chips intact and working.

So, did Shay make both an inner and outer backglass? I know they made the outer, but it also appears they did the inner. Does anybody have one the inner one? If so, how does it look?

Shay made the inner backglass I have one. It was sent to me directly from Shay. The registration is terrible. You can't see it until it's lighted from behind.
This was brought to his attention.

The white mask on the back is not registered with the rest of the artwork and looks terrible when lit up.

The mirroring looks good. The blue filters over the displays is lighter and looks washed out compared to an original.

If you were missing the glass or have a badly peeling glass, It's better than nothing. I chose to keep my original.

Thanks for the info. Looks like Coos is the place to get an inner backglass from.

Working on a black hole that someone had stolen parts off of. I need to order a replacement test switch, but I can't seem to find any info. Can anyone tell me what I need to order?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/photos-of-a-system-80-coin-door-test-switch.

It's just a momentary switch on a bracket. Very simple single pole so anything from an electronics supply will do

Functionally/electrically, it's just a single pole, N.O. (normally open), momentary contact, push-button style, panel-mount switch. Anything that you can secure into the hole would work. You should have no concern about its power rating since it's for a low voltage MPU signal; any switch that fits into that hole would be way over-rated electrically.

For cosmetics/restoration, call Steve at PBR. I cannot find the item/number in my 1982 Gottlieb Parts Catalog.

I'm having an issue with the set of 4 yellow drop targets on the lower playfield, they are not resetting. Here is what I've done so far:

1. Did the ground updates for the MPU/Driver board interconnect harness
2. Ensured the coil is good.
3. Traced the continuity from A1-J4 all the way to the solenoid, all good there.
4. Replaced the Q62 transistor.
5. Replaced the Q61 transistor with the unused Q54 transistor.
6. Ensured Z28 and Z30 are getting the correct voltage.
7. Used a logic probe on Z30 to ensure the reset signal is being sent out when appropriate, it is.
8. When pulling Q62 to ground by touching a wire from ground to the case, the target bank resets.

I tried directly testing the MPS-U45 transistor with a DMM diode check following the directions on Pinwiki, but every single MPS-U45 I tried on the board had no reading between the base and the emitter. Other than these drop targets, all the lamps/solenoids are working great. So obviously I'm testing them incorrectly or Pinwiki is wrong about how to test them, which is doubtful.

I'm at a loss of what to do next. I ordered some CEN-U45s to try a brand new one at Q61. Any suggestions of what else to try?

How are the pins on the harness between the MPU and driver board? They likely need replaced if they are original.

They have not been replaced, but there is continuity between them on the pin for for solenoid 5.

I have to ask as you didn't mention it. Have you checked the physical drop targets themselves? Check all four switches are actually connected and working?

Yeah, they all work. If I reset them manually, the games recognizes when they are hit.

you must have cursed me- the lower bank of 3 suddenly stopped resetting on my machine. Ended up being a bad connection A3J4. similar symptoms - targets score but would not reset. Put the machine into solenoid test (17) and the bank was not resetting there either. Beware the solenoid test in the manual is wrong- use this- https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Black_Hole

Yes. Also, solenoids are listed in two places in the manual. One is wrong and the other is correct.

Curious what a good or avg spinner rip is for people?
I get 10-15.
It seems
Like the the mounting bracket for the spinner on the of can be turned some as well to change the angle

The eagle has landed! Finally got one of these. Excited to get to work on cleaning it up!

Anyone have a one off tip they want to share ?

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Congrats! Here's my tip: watch out for magnetized coil stops for the pop bumpers. Not sure what it is about them in these games but they have a reputation for getting that way somehow. There are a few solutions that may help if you find it's a problem. I had found my pop bumpers seemed intermittently unresponsive and that's what was behind it. They're very snappy and powerful now! Keep that in mind if you find you're having trouble with them.

Bonus tip: some of the general illumination for the lower playfield use special 24v bulbs--make sure not to install regular 44 or 47 bulbs there as they'll burn right out. I think it's just the bulbs on the bottom of the main/upper playfield that point down at the lower playfield but I'm not 100% certain on that...

Enjoy your game! Looks like you got a nice one

I love the infinity glass effect with the lights strobing around it, such a cool game, on multiple levels

Noticed one pop bumper not firing, I'll definitely do some reading on the magnetizing.

I've heard about the lower LEDs, I'll find out what I have down there soon, so far I've just setup the backbox and started a game to see that it could.

Check all the pop bumper boards to see if they are updated. There should be details in the Gottlieb system 80 section of pinwiki.com

Most of my boards were not and I updated them all.

Not only updated, but with new headers and connector pins. Mine were so worn out and flaky.

Looks great! I'm in the middle of restoring mine and learning all about System 80 games.

A brain dump of things to consider:

My Black Hole came with the Pascal PI-80 combo board installed and that has made diagnosing and troubleshooting issues so much easier https://www.flippp.fr/pi80.php If you are planning on keeping Black Hole for a while I recommend getting one. Ditto for the PI-POP80 replacements boards for the pop bumpers.

If you do not go the Pascal route, read through the Pinball Wiki for hardening the original boards https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80

Immediately replace the orange filter capacitor if you still have it in the bottom of the cabinet. Mine still had it and a bunch of weird issues were resolved once I replaced it.

Buy a copy of the manual if you don't have it. The schematics are invaluable for debugging issues. You can pick one up here: https://pbresource.com/Blackhole.html

Ditto for magnetized coil stops on the bumpers... my game was throwing SW-06 errors. After cleaning the pop bumper coil stops in my Ultrasonic I stuck a piece of mylar on the coil stop and that solved the issue.

Check all of your fuses and make sure they are the correct ones! Order replacements as well to have on hand.

If there is "floating" mylar around the pop bumpers, remove them! Those floating rings are awful and chew through paint as junk gets stuck underneath them. If you want, lay down new mylar after applying fresh wax.

Good luck!

This is a lot of great advice, thank you!

Love Black Hole, but way too little playfield general illumination. I added a ton of Comet light strips everywhere, so much better now, see pics.

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I have to agree with you regarding the stock lighting. Way too dim. I may follow your lead on this when I get some free time.

So doing a cleaning today and found this on the lower playfield. Assuming there's not supposed to be a nail and maybe there's a different rubber ring needed? What protects the light ?

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I made that assumption on a different System 80 machine and removed them. Big mistake. These are factory and put there to protect things. On my Volcano, they keep the ball from pushing the slingshots in too far and deforming the switches.

Check the manual - page 39. Looks correct.

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Hey all, has anyone reproduced the plastic spinning disc for Black Hole? Mine has paint flaking off and I'm not sure how to touch it up. Thanks!