(Topic ID: 353552)

1969 Gottlieb Mini Pool- Scene Lights Issue

By Slidethefive

41 days ago


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#1 41 days ago

Hi All,

I have a 1969 Gottlieb Mini Pool machine and after replacing all of my backbox lights, there are (5) out of (13) bulbs that are not lighting up. I've tried switching out bulbs to ensure there wasn't an issue with the bulbs. I also made sure they were seated correctly. I know it's not a fuse or all of the scene lights would be out. I looked at the schematic (see photo) but don't see where I could look for the problem.

Thanks for your help!

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#2 41 days ago

Is there 5 lights that light up the score reels?
Are any of those out?

#3 41 days ago

All other backbox lights show up including score reels, game over, balls to go, and the other set of scene lights.

#4 41 days ago

Inside the backbox, put a mark by each failed socket. Inspect wiring of sockets and see if one of the sockets is the last of the daisy chain.
The 1st unlit socket in the string of unlit sockets is where the wire break is, possibly under a staple.

#5 40 days ago

Thanks! I'll try that today and report back

#6 40 days ago

I checked all of the wiring for the sockets (see image) and there are no breaks or loose/broken solder. All was working fine prior to replacing the bulbs. Any ideas?

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#7 40 days ago

Take all the 13 lights out you replaced. Put them back one at a time with the game on and see if inserting a particular one kills the 5 suspect bulbs. Then check to see what's different at that location.

#8 40 days ago

So...dumb question. How will I know it kills the 5 bulbs if those aren't working?

#9 40 days ago

---side note. I had replaced all my incandescent with LED----

Ok. So this is weird. I also noticed that the 4 "Name Lights" weren't working either. For the scene lights, I removed all 5 that weren't working as well as the one that is working. I then tested them using incandescent. When I put an incandescent bulb into any of the 5 that weren't working, the "Name Lights" came on (but not the actual bulb in that socket). When I put an LED bulb in, the "Name Lights" did not come on. I then put the LED's back in the 5 sockets and now get a very dim light, which I didn't get before. So now I'm really puzzled.

#10 40 days ago

No, good question, dumb on my part! Try, if you take all 13 lights out and put one in one of the 'dead' spots does that one work? Then one at a time switch it to the other dead ones. Do any work? I'm wondering if any of the 13 replacement bulbs is somehow screwing up the system.

#11 40 days ago

Just read your new post. What if you try all incandescent bulbs like it originally had. Does the problem go away?

#12 40 days ago

I'll try both of your suggestions and let you know. Thanks!

#13 40 days ago

I tried both of your suggestions. Still nothing. It's also weird that the name lights come on when I put an incandescent bulb into ANY of the 5 that aren't working (there are 6 grouped together on that side). But if I put an LED in them, the name lights don't work.

#14 40 days ago

Looking at the schematic....the "scene lights" don't trace anywhere. I'm trying to figure out what else to look at to troubleshoot.

#15 39 days ago

I also checked to see if there were any disconnected wires and solder. All good there.

#16 33 days ago

Any other ideas on this?

#17 32 days ago

LEDs are diodes and they will not illuminate if they are installed “backwards.” That could be a clue… that somewhere in the chain the ground braids get reversed?

#18 32 days ago
Quoted from AndrewP:

LEDs are diodes and they will not illuminate if they are installed “backwards.”

That's true for a DC (direct current) supply but not for an AC (alternating current) supply like this EM (electromechanical) game

#19 32 days ago

This is not making sense, especially if all the wires and solder joints are intact. If you take a known working 'scene lights' bulb (pretend it's the top one in your photo) and connect it like the red line to the 'tit' of an non-working bulb (say the bottom one in the photo), does the bulb light up? You can do that with a jumper wire with the alligator clips, or just a plain piece of wire with exposed ends if that's all you have. Just touch-tap it at first in case you have wrong things connected.

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#20 31 days ago

Is there a socket behind that bell? Could it be that from putting a new bulb in, the staples loosened and allowed the socket to move inward to create a break? And have you tried jumpering each socket one by one to see if theres a break somewhere? The schematic shows black/white to one side and black/red to the other, off the fuse.

Quoted from Slidethefive:

I checked all of the wiring for the sockets (see image) and there are no breaks or loose/broken solder. All was working fine prior to replacing the bulbs. Any ideas?
[quoted image]

#21 31 days ago

There is a socket behind the bell. I tried replacing with the old incandescent bulbs. Same issue. Regarding the alligator clips....am I just attaching one end to the working bulb and the other to the non-working bulb. Sorry, I haven't had experience using those.

#22 31 days ago
Quoted from Slidethefive:

Regarding the alligator clips....am I just attaching one end to the working bulb and the other to the non-working bulb

That's a good first step

#23 31 days ago
Quoted from Slidethefive:

am I just attaching one end to the working bulb and the other to the non-working bulb.

Yes.

#24 31 days ago

Ok. And that would be on the bottom of each socket, correct?

So if the non-working bulb lights up when I connect the alligator clips, what does that tell me? Conversely, it the bulb does not light up what does that mean?

#25 31 days ago
Quoted from Slidethefive:

And that would be on the bottom of each socket

Yes. It will give us some information and we can go from there. Do you still have 5 of 13 lights not working? Do the test on all five and see if any of them light, all except for one, etc. I'm just testing stuff because this doesn't add up if all the wires and solder is good.

#26 31 days ago

Yep. 5 out of 13 not working. There are two groupings of scene lights. All of the lights work on one of the groups (7 lights). And then 5 out of 6 do not work in the other group. I tried each of the 5 individually with different bulbs.

#27 31 days ago
Quoted from Slidethefive:

5 out of 6 do not work in the other group

Very odd. Unless there's a disconnect somehow. Did you try jumping each of those five nonfunctioning bulbs?

#28 30 days ago

So I cleaned the Jones plugs and adjusted switches on the T relay. Everything works now! I'm pretty sure it was the Jones plugs that were causing the problem. Thanks to everyone for their help!

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