It’s interesting because the monitor they used in the Hobbit appears to be significantly higher quality than the monitor they used in GnR (which I’m assuming is the same or very similar to the LCD used in Wonka). Somewhere along the way the LCD appears to have been a victim of cost cutting.

2435E882-CB78-43AA-BF47-26F173E69A41 (resized).jpeg

6D8D45B8-5705-4AD4-B8A3-C8CC9D6202FE (resized).jpeg

Not sure if it’s cost cutting or longevity they are after . Maybe new displays have worse resolution but better Long term use?

Never really heard of poorer quality monitors lasting longer than higher quality ones. I know they used to use commercial grade monitors and it wouldn’t surprise me if they switched to cheaper consumer grade ones at some point.

.

Loathe as I am to say it, but the stern Elvira has far better contrast and brightness on their display. The JJP GNR could look so much better. It messes with the room when you have a dirty looking display man. We are listening mod community and waiting for a resolve.

I don’t think the monitors are different “quality”

I read something about using hdmi vs vga

The hobbit is hooked up via vga so it looks better, I think you can switch GnR to be vga

This may or may not be accurate

It’s not accurate. They are using a lower quality screen now.

This happened between Dialed In and Pirates. The monitors went to a lesser quality. I was told Pirates CE's were better, but I can't verify that.

I have spoken with a well known employee at JJP and this (monitor differences) was confirmed.

Settings will help. But, will never get these new monitors even close to the sharpness or black level Dialed In and prior screens had.

I have the JJPs all in a row at home. And the difference is night and day.

Brian

I noticed it right away after playing Hobbit, you can instantly tell the difference, the clarity on the hobbit and colors are beautiful then when you play Wonka you can see it’s not as clear, more washed out colors. I would have to say it’s a different monitor. Someone with a Hobbit please post the model of your monitor so we can compare

Would the older model work as a replacement in the newer games?

I could look at the models between POTC and Dialed In tonight when I get home.. if nobody today does..

I would say yes since it’s just a PC

Oh ok, you’re saying DI had a better monitor? Seemed pretty meh to me

I wouldn't be terribly excited about it... But, I would pay a small upgrade fee to get the better monitor in my GNR LE (when it is eventually made). As crazy as that sounds for a $9.5k game...

Brian

This is an easy solution for me, someone who has a Wonka, guns and roses and a dialed in.

I simply will not buy a hobbit, not that I have any interest in playing a boring game with a monitor that has great black levels anyway.

I did a little research into the monitors used on Pirates a while ago. There were 2 different 27" LCD panels used. One was HDMI and one was DVI. The DVI model was made by 'AUO' in China and was said to have the superior picture. These are commercial LCD panels that are meant to be on for long hours and are now out of production. However, hooking up even a regular pc monitor also works. It seems to be more a matter of finding the right size panel and also one that fits the chassis/swing arm from the game.

My GNR SE has a monitor with dvi and hdmi outputs. A DVI to HDMI cable connects from the pc (dvi) to the hdmi of the monitor. The playfield monitor connects to the hdmi on the pc.

I don't know if its all of the Dialed In's. But my DI and POTC are next to each other in the line up and the difference is night and day. Even on the start up screens. Dialed In's screen is rich in color. and especially noticable in the attract screen. Pirates is washed out even after I applied the settings recommended to me by the very well known Jersey Jack employee.

when I first saw wonka, it looked so washed out to me, which seemed so off with the theme, and than when you compared it to a WoZ it was night and day. could not understand why it was so dull by comparison, thought that maybe to was get it to better match the aged color of the film, but sounds like it maybe it is the monitor.

Has anyone put a Woz Monitor in a Wonka to see if it looks better?

I once got a dmd game where it was clear the owner did a swap of the DMD from a different game, as there was some burn-in from a different title, wonder if we will see JJP owners swapping monitors from Hobbits to a a newer JJP game before selling it.

What about the later built Woz, any of those have the crappier LCDs?

Details Matter......

...especially for $1000 more!!!

No setting to bring the black levels and contrast up?

I'm sure adjusting the settings can help, but if the contrast ratio is a lot worse, you're only going to be able to improve it so much.

so the real question is, what's a suitable replacement? Anyone got a part number?

I love the game, but the display is maddening. like am I watching a ad on a gas station pump. I would love to see a upgrade remark suggestion in this thread. thanks for the thread BTW

My Hobbit LE start-up screen looks like your GNR ( green ) and so was my RR Woz .
The picture on them , is/ was , great .
The demo GNR I played the colours looked really good .
It would be a shifty move to put a better screen in the demo , but who knows .

IMG20210217223818 (resized).jpg

I think you have something else going on there with your Hobbit. None of the "lesser" screens looked green. They had a gray boot sceen. Or washed out look once the game booted. Colors weren't sharp. They look like you have the brightness turned up way too much and the contrast down. But, there are absolutely no settings you can adjust for better quality. I've adjusted the recommended JJP settings and tried way more than that. My Pirates is "acceptable" now. But certainly not as good as my DI, Hobbit, or WoZ. And, I am not just comparing this with the games in my collection. There are a ton of JJPs here both on location and in collections. This monitor trait between games is 100% across every game I've seen.

Maybe LTG could shed some light on this? As he has all the games side by side (I believe).

The DVI monitor used in POTC is M270HVN02.1

Panel Brand:AUO
Panel Model:M270HVN02.1
Panel Size:27.0 inch
Panel Type:a-Si TFT-LCD, LCM
Resolution:1920(RGB)×1080 , FHD
Pixel Format:RGB Vertical Stripe
Display Area:597.6(W)×336.15(H) mm
Bezel Opening:601.6(W)×340.15(H) mm
Outline Size:630(W)×368.2(H)×11(D) mm
Surface:Antiglare, Hard coating (3H)
Brightness:300 cd/m2 (Typ.)
Contrast Ratio:3000 (Typ.) (TM)
Viewing Angle:89/89/89/89 (Typ.)(CR=10)
Display Mode:AMVA, Normally Black, Transmissive
Best View on:Symmetry
Response Time:7/5 (Typ.)(Tr/Td)
Display Colors:16.7M 72%(CIE1931)
Lamp Type:15S4PWLED, 30K hours, Without Driver
Frequency:60Hz
Touch Screen:Without
Panel Weight: 2.18Kgs (Typ.)
Application Desktop Monitor,Signal Interface: LVDS (2 ch, 8-bit), 30 pins, Connector
Input Voltage:5.0V (Typ.)
Environment:Operating Temp.: 0 ~ 50 °C ;Storage Temp.: -20 ~ 60 °C

Genuinely curious - If these AUO displays are garbage, then why do they seem to be 2-3x as expensive as most small LCD TVs?

Displays were changed to the cheaper version sometime in the potc run. My potcle monitor is the good one that looks excellent compared to ones used after. Also the newer cheaper monitors need ajusted as the brightness and contrast are set up to almost 100 percent from the factory ....which make it look very washed out.

does the display come with the controller; from the Pdf looks like you need to add the HDMI/DVI to LVDS.

Spooky also use a low quality monitor and upgrading the monitor on TNA was a no brainier.

Because you aren’t going to get 4K resolution or graphics out of the onboard video on the motherboard and they aren’t going to put a $600 gpu in each game which are now impossible to get. 4K gaming is still very expensive in the pc world and you’re not going to see the difference on the types of animations on pinball machines anyway.

Also the smallest digital signage platform in 4K is 40” because of pixel density.

So, what model display panel is in your machine? What connection inputs does it have?

I didn't understand the comment this was replying to. Is there an expectation that pinball displays should be 4k? This makes no sense due to the size of the display, and how far away you are, and the fact that nobody spends much time looking at it.

Now the P3 games - I do think they would benefit from the playfield display being 4K. I'd definitely upgrade if they provided one. Even better, an OLED display! (even at 1080p that would be incredible) For 4k even that display is quite small

Exactly. That was my point. The person I replied to said he can’t get over the fact they are only 1080.

A 4k display on a pinball machine is silly. The action is on the playfield not and its not like one is going to stare at the back glass while playing. That said, contrast ratio and a quality display does make a world of difference (the boot-up screens clearly show that), resolution does not. OLED would look killer but would be an ill suited application for a pinball machine in the wild (burn in and longevity). I still think LCD's are crap for home television but they do have their place, this would be one of them.

On P3 I would care a lot more about the latency and viewing angle of the display than I would the resolution. This is a big issue with TVs / monitors for gaming even with PS4/5, XBOX, etc.

I will c if I can get to it today and check...

That’s much more of an issue with virtual pins - since P3s have a real ball and the display is used as the (mostly static) Playfield there’s almost nothing moving quickly enough to cause a latency issue

Just checked, and my POTC has the older, better display. So that’s a relief!

I read this a bunch of times and couldn't tell if you were talking about the P3 displays or not. Just to avoid any confusion, every production P3 has shipped with very high quality playfield displays, with nearly 180-degree viewing angles. Our backbox displays look even better (because they're not under a thick protective sheet of polycarbonate)... super vibrant and wide viewing angles. I think we use the same size (27") as the ones being questioned in this thread. If true, feel free to message me about sourcing replacements.

See pics of the early production machine at my house. Ignore the whitewood / prototype Heist playfield.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com
PXL_20210221_172015775 (resized).jpgPXL_20210221_172036011 (resized).jpgPXL_20210221_172048777 (resized).jpgPXL_20210221_172107036 (resized).jpg

.

I can certainly confirm the backbox displays on the P3 are INCREDIBLE looking. super vibrant! The playfield itself is a little more.. I don't know.. dim? I guess? Because it is under the polycarbonate Gerry mentioned. There is no issue whatsoever with the viewing angle on either.

What model LCD panel do you have and what inputs does it have? You're the 3rd person to chime in saying that they have 'the good one' with no specifics. I'm curious what other panel was used for POTC.

Yes, dot pitch is the thing that really will make a difference. Chasing 4k is a waste of time on a 27" screen.

I'll take a look when I can get over to the machine

Night and day difference. My WoZ looks as good as my Dialed In. My Hobbit looked equally good. All the Wonka's and GNR's I've seen look just like my Pirates.

20210221_180342 (resized).jpg

20210221_180454 (resized).jpg

20210221_180456 (resized).jpg

20210221_180502 (resized).jpg