(Topic ID: 355473)

Williams System 11 Power Supply Question (High-Voltage Section)

By idealjoker

9 days ago


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#1 9 days ago

I have a low-play Sys 11 sample game that spent most of its life in storage. The power supply is original but looks brand new without any sign of heat damage or any other wear. Unfortunately however, the high-voltage section is broken --- F1 (1/4A slo-blo) keeps blowing. According to pinwiki, there are four likely reasons for this symptom: 1) Bad Capacitor at C1 and C3; 2) Shorted Display; 3) Shorted UDN7180; 4) Shorted UDN6118.

I know it's not 2 because I have tested the glass in another game. Given the fact that the game has been mainly in storage, with apparently very few hours of operation, which of the other three reasons do you consider the most likely? Also, can I test the two UDN chips for shorting without desoldering?

#2 9 days ago

On an old board with little use, I would replace the capacitors first.

I dont know any method to test the UDN's without removing. But if the fuse does not blow after removing the chips one at a time, it is clear the chip is faulty.

#3 9 days ago

It’s most likely the caps, (or possibly the rectifier diodes). If the fuse blows even with the display driver disconnected, the problem will be on the power supply board. It would be helpful to mention the game as there are two different power supply boards and several different display driver arrangements. On the early ps, for example, you would disconnect J5 to isolate the display board (or boards, in the case of Bally (Midway) models)

#4 9 days ago

Disconnect J2 in the bottom left corner of your power supply board. Replace the fuse (if it's blown).

(EDIT: correct jack to disconnect changed when OP posted a picture of their board..)

Apply power.

If the fuse blows without any display being connected, you need to rebuild your HV section on the power supply board.

If the fuse doesn't blow, check on J2 for +100, -100, and 5v. This will confirm that the power supply is putting out the correct voltages, and that it's the display system that is compromised.

Once you know it's your display system instead of the power supply, we can help you if you let us know what game you are using.

Let us know what you find!

#5 9 days ago

Thank you all for the info.

The game is a Bad Cats. Pic of the power supply attached. (More to show off just how nice it looks than any other reason ) The tests I carried out before posting: Zero volts on both + and - 100 at J2 (lower left corner, no display connected) with a broken fuse at F1. Replaced the fuse and same: zero volts and fuse broken again. And I should also mention that the game plays just fine with LED displays, which means that the problem is only with the high-voltage section.

I re-read the information on pinwiki and I think that I was confused before. There are no UDN chips on the power supply, so there's no need to worry about shorts with these chips. From the original list this leaves only bad C1 and C3. I desoldered C1. Unfortunately my multimeter does not go high enough (up to 20uF). However, I can charge the cap slowly with the multimeter set to 200kOhm and the resistance slowly increases as expected. Once charged it holds a voltage of 0.2V. While I do not know whether the cap has full capacitance it looks pristine and behaves like a cap.

This is where I had to stop. My next steps will be to test the transistors Q1-Q4 on the power supply board. Probably this weekend.

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#6 9 days ago
Quoted from idealjoker:

The power supply is original but looks brand new without any sign of heat damage or any other wear.

That board is NOT factory original. C1, C3 and C10 have almost certainly been replaced.

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#7 9 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

That board is NOT factory original.

Thank you!! That explains the higher capacitance than on the schematic, which should have raised a flag. But I don't think I would have noticed the reversed polarity. (I desoldered C3 and not C1.) Do you mind telling me what damage this problem has likely caused on the board?

[Makes me feel better not to be the first one to have made changes on this beautiful board.]

#8 9 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

That board is NOT factory original. C1, C3 and C10 have almost certainly been replaced.
[quoted image]

Never mind, reversed polarity was mentioned in the next post by OP…

C10 looks wrong too if you are only referring to C1 which is highlighted… i’m sure you are double checking them all now tho lol.

#9 9 days ago
Quoted from Completist:

Based on that schematic, doesn’t C10 look like it is installed with the incorrect polarity? (Negative lead in the positive location)

No, that is for a different orientation capacitor. C1 is in backwards though

#10 9 days ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

No, that is for a different orientation capacitor. C1 is in backwards though

Ah ok, i was thinking that one of the + locations on the drawing was for a radial cap and the other if an axial one was used (either way making me think that positive was towards the top of the board). But i couldn’t see from the pic what is printed on the board.

#11 9 days ago
Quoted from Completist:

Ah ok, i was thinking that one of the + locations on the drawing was for a radial cap and the other if an axial one was used (either way making me think that positive was towards the top of the board). But i couldn’t see from the pic what is printed on the board.

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#12 8 days ago

I re-installed C3 and turned around C1. I also replaced Z2 and Z4 with 91V Zeners (1N4763A) while I was at it. Installed a new fuse at F1 and got -92V on pin1 (good) and initially +88V on pin3 (too low). When I connected the display, it worked but weakly and then dropped out. Re-measuring the voltages got me -92V on pin1 and 84V on pin3.

I am guessing that the low positive voltage may be caused by a damaged C1. I will buy a replacement and report back.

Thank you again, @dumbass!

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